No Natty without Elite Recruiting

#51
#51
Dudleys87 said:
Spin it however you like it's getting worse.
Legacies are running out and the diamond in the rough strategy will only carry him so far
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I would expect these class rankings to be somewhat cyclical. You have a couple big classes when you have tons of PT to offer. Then you have a couple of lesser classes when you have less PT to offer and you're filling needs. Hopefully the amplitude decreases after a few cycles as you start being able to sell sustained excellence. It seems to me that declaring a recruiting drop off after a couple of 14th rated classes is premature.
 
#52
#52
Witch_Doctor said:
Witch Doctor not bashing, but when its your only bullet and you post it every chance you get....theres feeling involved. Witchie not charge for that one...lol

Bones Never Lie.
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No. I stopped having feelings sometime back in the Dooley era. It's a simple an autoimune response at this point kind of like sticking your head in a bowl of pollen. Lol
 
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#53
#53
MWAVolfan said:
No. I stopped having feelings sometime back in the Dooley era. It's a simple an autoimune response at this point kind of like sticking your head in a bowl of pollen. Lol
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Witch Doctor say ok..thats funny! That made Witchie chuckle.!lol

Bones Never Lie.
 
#54
#54
beneVOLence said:
Does anybody know what the average star rating of the roster of the Super Bowl contenders are this year? According to Danny Kanell New England's is a 2.8 and Atlanta's is a 2.6. Not sure what that says, but I thought it was interesting none the less.
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It means two things: there are thousands more 2 and 3 star players each year compared to 4 and 5 stars. There simply aren't enough 4 and 5 star players in the world to fill up the rosters of every NFL team.

The second thing it means is that playing in the NFL is different than playing in college. You can be a record setting college athlete and suck in the pros. Converse to that you can play at a DII school and still make it in the NFL. It's a straight up falsehood to assume if you are a good NFL player that you were also a great college player and somehow just got missed. That's not the reality of it.

But all we should care about as UT fans in this context are the players that are really really good at playing college ball. That's who we need.
 
#56
#56
volmandu said:
Auburn averaged 16th, Clemson 13th in their NC wins. LSU 12th. Although not a NC win but Washington probably averaged in the 40s for their recruiting, they made playoffs. Oregon could not be in Top 15 for their NC title game (4 years average).

Even for NCs, 21% of the teams were recruiting below top 10. That is a big % to overlook.

So yes, you can win NC or be elite without Top 10 recruiting if you know how to develop players and coach good games.
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Auburn and Clemson both had tremendous QBs though. That goes a long way to offsetting an otherwise OK recruiting class. Conversely, LSU couldn't recruit a QB no matter how many other 4 and 5 star guys they got.
 
#57
#57
thunderduck17 said:
I didn't spin anything. You can't spin the fact that recruiting has been top ten based on 247 composite scores since Butch has been here. It is based on math. Do you need me to help you calculate the average of those four numbers?
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It was not last year and it will not be this year. Minus out the attrition and even your precious average is out the window. And did you even include the 2013 class that Butch signed in your average? Keep on spinning and making excuses. We'll save you a seat on the bandwagon when Butch is replaced in about 10 months.
 
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#58
#58
VolunteerHillbilly said:
It was not last year and it will not be this year. Minus out the attrition and even your precious average is out the window. And did you even include the 2013 class that Butch signed in your average? Keep on spinning and making excuses. We'll save you a seat on the bandwagon when Butch is replaced in about 10 months.
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Same effect happened with Dooley. Most didn't want to see the writing on the wall. I see no turn around easy button for Butch. Just a matter of time until most here and the administration pulls the trigger on reality.
 
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#60
#60
volmandu said:
Auburn averaged 16th, Clemson 13th in their NC wins. LSU 12th. Although not a NC win but Washington probably averaged in the 40s for their recruiting, they made playoffs. Oregon could not be in Top 15 for their NC title game (4 years average).

Even for NCs, 21% of the teams were recruiting below top 10. That is a big % to overlook.

So yes, you can win NC or be elite without Top 10 recruiting if you know how to develop players and coach good games.
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I pulled the 4 year recruiting average for all the teams in the 41 bowl games. The "underdogs" won 20 games. In 13 of those games the underdog's 4 year avg was more than 10 points lower.

The 2 biggest upsets:
K State over Texas A&M
Difference 49.25
USF over SCAR
Difference 36.75

In the playoffs Clemson was ranked 9 spots behind Ohio State and 12 spots behind Bama.

As for Washington's 4 year ranking, 27.75
 
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#61
#61
volmandu said:
Auburn averaged 16th, Clemson 13th in their NC wins. LSU 12th. Although not a NC win but Washington probably averaged in the 40s for their recruiting, they made playoffs. Oregon could not be in Top 15 for their NC title game (4 years average).

Even for NCs, 21% of the teams were recruiting below top 10. That is a big % to overlook.

So yes, you can win NC or be elite without Top 10 recruiting if you know how to develop players and coach good games.
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Good points.

Too bad we haven't seen anything approaching top notch player development or in game coaching yet.
 
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#62
#62
beneVOLence said:
Does anybody know what the average star rating of the roster of the Super Bowl contenders are this year? According to Danny Kanell New England's is a 2.8 and Atlanta's is a 2.6. Not sure what that says, but I thought it was interesting none the less.
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Clemson and Alabama average star ratings much more relevant imo.
 
#63
#63
volmandu said:
Auburn averaged 16th, Clemson 13th in their NC wins. LSU 12th. Although not a NC win but Washington probably averaged in the 40s for their recruiting, they made playoffs. Oregon could not be in Top 15 for their NC title game (4 years average).

Even for NCs, 21% of the teams were recruiting below top 10. That is a big % to overlook.

So yes, you can win NC or be elite without Top 10 recruiting if you know how to develop players and coach good games.
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Only Auburn played in the SEC, and they had a transcendent QB, which can make up for a lot of deficiencies. Clemson had that kind of QB, too.
 
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#64
#64
08Vol said:
I pulled the 4 year recruiting average for all the teams in the 41 bowl games. The "underdogs" won 21 games. In 14 of those games the underdog's 4 year avg was more than 10 points lower.

The 3 biggest upsets:
Miami, OH over Mississippi St
Difference 73.5
K State over Texas A&M
Difference 49.25
USF over SCAR
Difference 36.75

In the playoffs Clemson was ranked 9 spots behind Ohio State and 12 spots behind Bama.

As for Washington's 4 year ranking, 27.75
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Miss St. won.

Barely, but they did win.
 
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#65
#65
thunderduck17 said:
So you prefer trends? How about looking at the football record underneath Butch?

Fulmer

2008 (5-7)

Kiffin

2009 (7-6)

Dooley

2010 (6-7)
2011 (5-7)
2012 (5-7)

Jones

2013 (5-7)
2014 (7-6)
2015 (9-4)
2016 (9-4)
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Really using Fulmers last season? Fulmer won something Jones never will. Fulmer recruited better than Jones ever will.

Had the USC never become an issue Kiffin would have won a lot of games at Tennessee.

Dooley beat Butch so there's that.
 
#66
#66
Col_Cathcart said:
I would expect these class rankings to be somewhat cyclical. You have a couple big classes when you have tons of PT to offer. Then you have a couple of lesser classes when you have less PT to offer and you're filling needs. Hopefully the amplitude decreases after a few cycles as you start being able to sell sustained excellence. It seems to me that declaring a recruiting drop off after a couple of 14th rated classes is premature.
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Tennessee has plenty to sell. Butch didn't maintain a top 10 class because he didn't have legacies to back fill with
 
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#68
#68
volmandu said:
That I agree to. This staff has underachieved so far. I doubt they would win with a Top 5 average.

It is also to fact that even if we had #2 class , we would play Alabama twice a year (regular season and SEC game) and with Nick being a better coach than Butch, we would lose both games with comparable talent.
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Haha doing a lot of if-ing and assuming there...
 
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#69
#69
beneVOLence said:
Do you know those? I'm sure Alabama's is close to 4, but I bet our average is better than Clemson's. Stars matter, but so does good coaching.
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Clemsons is much better according to 247. So much so that they're ranked a spot ahead of us despite having half the recruits.

Edit- Clemson avg star rating much higher on Rivals too
 
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#70
#70
KBVol said:
Clemsons is much better according to 247. So much so that they're ranked a spot ahead of us despite having half the recruits.

Edit- Clemson avg star rating much higher on Rivals too
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Is that who is on their roster or this years class?
 
#75
#75
volmandu said:
Auburn averaged 16th, Clemson 13th in their NC wins. LSU 12th. Although not a NC win but Washington probably averaged in the 40s for their recruiting, they made playoffs. Oregon could not be in Top 15 for their NC title game (4 years average).

Even for NCs, 21% of the teams were recruiting below top 10. That is a big % to overlook.

So yes, you can win NC or be elite without Top 10 recruiting if you know how to develop players and coach good games.
Click to expand...

Clemson and Washington have better coaching imo.
 
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