SEC Coaching Grades

#101
#101
I also don't know the methodology but part of Jones' grade seems to be coming from his time at CM and Cincy given he has 9 years experience on the list.

Given the way he has slipped in winning percentage every time he stepped up a level, he must have been considered an A+++ at Central Michigan to have dropped to no lower than a B+ average now.
 
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#102
#102
Good grief! He is not as bad a coach as you want him to be. And some of those you think should are better are not really as good as you say they are.

You all give Freeze and others a pass on things you dog your own head coach for.
 
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#103
#103
BeecherVol said:
He picked a poor hill to try and prove that. I'm not sure what argument that you could make that disproves it. Is it a huge gap? Not to this point, no. But I'm not sure what you can pull that makes an argument for Jones.
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Over Mac, there's barely a hairs difference in on field.
But I would still take Jones in recruiting. If Mac can't do any better in the state of Florida at the University of Florida, with two straight division titles? He wouldn't stand a chance here.
 
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#105
#105
My guess is whoever gave him a B only watched the 2nd half of about 3 of our games and didn't take the rest into consideration.
 
#106
#106
chargervol said:
Over Mac, there's barely a hairs difference in on field.
But I would still take Jones in recruiting. If Mac can't do any better in the state of Florida at the University of Florida, with two straight division titles? He wouldn't stand a chance here.
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The talent difference is minimal now. It's not like Mac is beating him with with top shelf talent.

I ll take the guy winning the division.
 
#108
#108
sjt18 said:
Second best coach who has had the best roster in the East for the past two years and has managed to NOT win the division? :dunno:
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I'll play your game....what makes it the best roster? How do you determine that because if you'r going to go by recruit rankings that would be UGA who has the best roster in the East. Ohhh yeah and they have lost the last two games against Tennessee.
 
#109
#109
volfan102455 said:
Good grief! He is not as bad a coach as you want him to be. And some of those you think should are better are not really as good as you say they are.

You all give Freeze and others a pass on things you dog your own head coach for.
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Wanting is a true fan joke card.

Hes probably not as bad as some claim. But he's not as good as others pitch him to be either.
 
#111
#111
BeecherVol said:
The talent difference is minimal now. It's not like Mac is beating him with with top shelf talent.

I ll take the guy winning the division.
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I understand, valid point.
I just feel that as the talent keeps dropping, so will his results. And that he just would bring in no talent here to work with.

No right or wrong, just different ways of looking at it.
 
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#112
#112
chargervol said:
I understand, valid point.
I just feel that as the talent keeps dropping, so will his results. And that he just would bring in no talent here to work with.

No right or wrong, just different ways of looking at it.
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I don't think either team will be more talent than they are now under the same coaches.
 
#113
#113
johnrlansford said:
Other than Saban who would you rather have than Butch from that list? I am not sure there is another one, Maybe Dan Mullen for me but he still has underachieved outside of the Dak Prescott years.
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well the scoring system seems to agree with you and so do I.

The problem butch has is twofold.We play in the SEC and we play Bama every year. Everything is measured against UA. Reality is that bama (NC loss notwithstanding) is not a fair comparison at this stage to anyone else. They have build a beast and its gonna be hard to topple them anytime soon without some outside help. That is true no matter who coaches at UT.
 
#114
#114
fearsvols said:
I'll play your game....what makes it the best roster? How do you determine that because if you'r going to go by recruit rankings that would be UGA who has the best roster in the East. Ohhh yeah and they have lost the last two games against Tennessee.
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UGA has not found a way to beat the gators the last two seasons as well.
 
#115
#115
sjt18 said:
There's still a parallel even if they differ by degrees. Zook built a championship roster but couldn't win a championship. Jones did the same.
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The point is to win while you have the job; not have done of your recruits win a title 2 years after you're fired. Butch may have a couple of recent bad losses, but Zook never won 9 or a conference title in his life.
 
#116
#116
sjt18 said:
I don't like him but McElwain is 2 for 2 since taking over UF.

Mullen is a good coach hampered by a place that's really difficult to recruit to.

Again, I don't like the guy but Bielema has done more with less since going to Arkansas. It would be interesting to know what he would have done if he and Jones had reversed roles.

I'd take Malzahn over Jones in a half second.

Freeze had a bad year but he's had more success than Jones in a more difficult place to have success.


I'm not exactly sure what this guy based his grades on. Jones lost a game in each of his first 2 years that should have been wins. As talent has gotten better, his optimization of it has actually gotten worse. There were 3 losses in each of the last two years that easily could have if not should have been wins.

In his first 4 years, Jones has one upset win to his credit.

Jones' defenders do not want to deal with these things... but these and his overall record are the bottom line facts after you cut through all of the minutiae. Jones to date is more like a "D" than a B+. He needs a few years of earning "A's" to get his avg back up to B+.
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no the problem is you don't get it. UT is a great program but reality is its a really hard place to recruit to all else aside. Yes we have great facilities and a good budget. We have to. compared to other SEC schools we are in the worst demographic situation outside of Vandy and Kentucky. Vandy is a private school and don't really care. Kentucky is a Basketball school and don't care.

Look at every other SEC team outside of them and we are in the worst possible geographic/demographic location.= for our target audience. Do you know how far is it from Knoxville to Pulaski? Not just in miles but mentality? Knoxville is a hard sell. I have bled orange all my life. I didn't play football at the collegiate level. but when it came time for picking a college UT was not on my radar. That choice had nothing to do with academics.

There is a stigma that goes with location, lets be honest here. Bama has it too, but they have recent success to dull the edge and they also have a lot more instate talent and nearby talent. Knoxville lies in the middle of a wasteland of football talent. The fact that UT has been as successfully as it has been historically is amazing. the fact Butch was able to bring us back this far after the series of typical east TN boneheaded choices made between Fulmers firing and his hiring is amazing.

Was it time to move on from CPF.. probably.. but it was done completely wrong just like the reason it rook Reggie years to return to knoxville. The same reason Arian foster kinda glosses over the fact he went here. People do not get it. There are issues there and most of the fan base don't get it. they are blinded by we want NC and damn how we get there. we deserve it is all the reason they seem to need.
 
#117
#117
08Vol said:
It takes more than a few classes to build depth because you have to recruit players differently. If you tell a kid "come to UT, you can compete for a starting position in your 1st year" then expect him to leave if he doesn't get that starting spot. Our class is full of 3* players at positions where the guys know they will be backups. We have 3 top 100 players (OT, RB, S) and all are positions where they will compete for game 1 snaps.
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Define "more than a few". How many is four? Is that less or more than "a few"?
 
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#118
#118
johnrlansford said:
Who has McElwain beat on the field that he has proven to be a good coach? Winning a down east isn't that great of an accomplishment!!!
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Winning a down East may not be that great of an accomplishment, but he's been able to do it twice, in two seasons.....something Jones has yet to do once in 4....so what does that say about Butch?
 
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#120
#120
B+ really ? 2-2 against Vandy, lost to SC this year, no division championships, no major upset wins. That's a huge curve in the grading scale. His upward trend must have been at Cincy where he lost to Dooley.
 
#123
#123
pimo1 said:
I didn't play football at the collegiate level. but when it came time for picking a college UT was not on my radar. That choice had nothing to do with academics

Then, what was the reason u picked the college u attended?
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#125
#125
sjt18 said:
Oh, it is "rational" to believe that a "B+" coach can't beat Muschamp and lost to the two worst teams in the SEC to blow a chance to go to the CG or Sugar Bowl?

There IS a parallel. I even qualified it by saying that Jones wasn't as bad as Zook.

The parallel is this: Both were able to build championship rosters. Neither won a championship with it.
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Zook did not build a thing. Zook inherited a national title contender and was so bad, he couldn't beat Sylvester Croom at MS State. Butch inherited a nuclear wasteland from Dooley. Completely different situations..Butch actually had to build something. Zook will go down with Dooley, Goff, and Croom as all-time worst SEC coaches. As frustrating as the USC and Vandy games were, a comparison with Zook may be a bit much, IMO given the inherited circumstances.

With that being said, a B+ SEC East coach has to go better than 9-7 in SEC play the past two years, especially considering UF and UGA changing coaches. That's why a C+ is a fair grade, IMO.
 
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