Trump guts NSC

#176
#176
Orangedogsrule said:
All thoughtful people know that, of course, Bush initiated the search and Obama authorized it's continuation. Whatever words used by either were pretty, but one's words had no more effect on finding Bin Laden than the other's.

To say Bush couldn't ..Obama did .. or Bush started it all Obama just followed; is pure unadulterated SOP political hackery of all you libTARDS and Republoconservatives.

It is the civilian and military officers and rank and file who continued to relentlessly search for Bin Laden through BOTH administrations. They had all necessary funding and tools made available. During Bush's term they found the Al Queda operative that eventually, during Obama's term, led them to Bin Laden. Obama simply authorized the execution of the Seal Team plan for the take down. BOTH presidents performed relatively equal parts.

It is the rank and file who never stopped searching, found him, got authorization, and executed the takedown; who deserve the accolades.
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The situation room: Mr. President, there is only a 40% chance the subject under servaillence is bin Laden. The President : Proceed. No spin zone.
 
#177
#177
volprof said:
I agree with all of this, with the exception that his weakness enabled the invasion of Crimea and Ukraine. I think those two things happen no matter who is in the White House, as Crimea and Ukraine reserve far more importance in the Kremlin scale of threat assessments than, say, Tbilisi.
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Perhaps. Though I think the invasion of Ukraine was set in motion eight years earlier when Putin realized the US and the West lacked the resolve to back Georgia in the 2008 Russo-Georgian war. I do recognize the fact Bush was handcuffed there since it was in the last months of his Presidency. I do disagree with your theory that Crimea/Donbas would have happened regardless of who was in office. Had Obama and his foreign policy team shown more backbone and resolve in the face of a growing and resurgent Russia it might not have happened. It didn't take Putin and policy makers in the Kremlin long to realize that the Obama White House lacked the dedication to challenge Russian actions in Europe and the Middle-East. It would have been interesting to see how the last eight years would have played out differently had Obama decided not to get cute and do that "reset" with Russia. If you're still not convinced that American weakness emboldened Russia than look no more than to Syria, I don't think Putin would have gotten involved in the Syrian Civil War with a strong leader at the helm.
 
#178
#178
orangeluvr said:
The situation room: Mr. President, there is only a 40% chance the subject under servaillence is bin Laden. The President : Proceed. No spin zone.
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Okay he ordered the Bin Laden raid I'll give him credit. That doesn't make up for him getting bent over the table at every turn by the Kremlin and refusing to help Ukraine fend off Russian aggression.
 
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#179
#179
Burhead said:
I'd give Obama credit if he did something successful. Fact of the matter is his foreign policy has made the world, and the US, less safe. His weakness in the face of Putin caused the invasion of Ukraine and he surrendered American leadership in the Mid-East to the likes of Russia and Iran. He was woefully ill prepared to direct American foreign policy and it shows.
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Neo Con foreign policy is responsible for the world in which we live today. cheney dumbsfeld, and rice, to some extent bush.
 
#180
#180
carlos86 said:
Ben Rhodes was on the Iraq Study Group Report and helped right the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. Like I said I dislike Rhodes. Bannon can have as many degrees and he could have served with General Eisenhower for all I care. I wouldn't want anyone with the world view that Bannon has anywhere near the President or the NSC.
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Were the recommendations of the commission wrong?
 
#181
#181
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
Trump screeching about how "unfair" everything is has definitely awakened the butthurt in your crowd.
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Lol. What do you think I am butthurt about? I voted for Trump and he won. Do you think I care about him complaining about what is fair and unfair? I dont. The only thing I care about is what he does. What he says is irrelevant to me. Actions speak much louder than words.
 
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#183
#183
orangeluvr said:
Neo Con foreign policy is responsible for the world in which we live today. cheney dumbsfeld, and rice, to some extent bush.
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You're not going to get an objection from me that the Bush Doctrine made the Middle-East less stable. However you are extremely foolish if you think Obama's foreign policy, or lack thereof, hasn't caused the world to burn even more than Bush's.
 
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#184
#184
orangeluvr said:
9/11 was on Clinton's watch.
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Fify. If Obama taught us anything it is that nothing negative can be attributed to a president until he has been in office for at least eight years. Since this occurred less than nine months after Bush was sworn in, this has to be Clinton’s fault. Amirite?
 
#185
#185
Burhead said:
I'd give Obama credit if he did something successful. Fact of the matter is his foreign policy has made the world, and the US, less safe. His weakness in the face of Putin caused the invasion of Ukraine and he surrendered American leadership in the Mid-East to the likes of Russia and Iran. He was woefully ill prepared to direct American foreign policy and it shows.
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:rock: Nailed it dead on bullseye Burhead.
 
#187
#187
Burhead said:
Perhaps. Though I think the invasion of Ukraine was set in motion eight years earlier when Putin realized the US and the West lacked the resolve to back Georgia in the 2008 Russo-Georgian war. I do recognize the fact Bush was handcuffed there since it was in the last months of his Presidency. I do disagree with your theory that Crimea/Donbas would have happened regardless of who was in office. Had Obama and his foreign policy team shown more backbone and resolve in the face of a growing and resurgent Russia it might not have happened. It didn't take Putin and policy makers in the Kremlin long to realize that the Obama White House lacked the dedication to challenge Russian actions in Europe and the Middle-East. It would have been interesting to see how the last eight years would have played out differently had Obama decided not to get cute and do that "reset" with Russia. If you're still not convinced that American weakness emboldened Russia than look no more than to Syria, I don't think Putin would have gotten involved in the Syrian Civil War with a strong leader at the helm.
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Ukraine and Crimea are "existential" in the Russian security worldview. A stronger American president would have most likely stopped Russian prodding elsewhere, in say, the Baltics, Moldova, or the Balkans, instead of emboldening them through a weak foreign policy hand, but Ukraine and Crimea are fundamentally different.
 
#188
#188
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
The joint chiefs consist not only of the chairman and vice-chairman, but also of military chiefs from the Navy, Army, Marines, Air Force, and National Guard.

You and Burger must really hate military expertise.
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I hate having an Orwellian government.
 
#190
#190
volprof said:
This took an awfully lot of effort on your part simply to state that you don't have a good grasp on human nature.
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The whole damn world exists right now because of a concept acknowledged around the world. One I did not come up with, and have no hand in; but that depends on everyones understanding of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) whether or not currently "official" policy.

But you, with your profoundly out of touch with reality cognations; have all by your lonesome-well maybe a very few other nutcases- have arrived at a "truth" of human nature no other government in ALL THE FRICKIN WORLD with all their access to RATIONAL THINKERS WHICH YOU ARE NOT, have concluded.

And especially not me.

You believe a deranged "you hurt my honor" leader of some nation, all by himself, can force a bilateral nuclear conflagration of End Of Species nature.

You seriously, and I mean seriously, need to find qualified psychological help. We're just in week two of this administration and you believe Trump and others in his administration are Russian spys and his ineptitude is going to start a neclear exchange with China.

Go get help.
 
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#192
#192
Burhead said:
So by this post I take it that you don't dispute my statement that Putin and the Russians won every direct engagement against us these last eight years with Obama?
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Is it possible to dispute that? Putin owned Obama in every sense of the word.
 
#193
#193
Burger said:
I hate having an Orwellian government.
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So you voted for the group that shouts down journalists, operates on "alternative facts", openly complains about dissent and civil disobedience, and rejects any scientific or historical truth that conflicts with their message?

Makes sense.
 
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#194
#194
tumscalcium said:
Not always. The 9/11 attacks took place less than 8 months after Bush took office. They were planning well before he took office. There were attacks here under Obama, no need to get crazy and dance around it with your alternative wording. There will be ones under Trump. The attacks aren't on any of them specifically.

Radical Muslims absolutely hate us regardless of who is in office. Middle Eastern culture isn't harmonious with western culture as s while either. There will be attacks, doesn't mean it needs pinned on a specific president. It would help if not so many people wanted to mix oil with water.
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I agree with a lot of what you say.

I wasn't dancing around anything with alternative wording. Airvol asked a question trying to set a trap but he didn't have the true quote. I answered the question.
 
#195
#195
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
So you voted for the group that shouts down journalists, operates on "alternative facts", openly complains about dissent and civil disobedience, and rejects any scientific or historical truth that conflicts with their message?

Makes sense.
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I didn't vote for Obama.
 
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#199
#199
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
...and I'm no fan of Obama, but he's not guilty of a single thing I listed. What an ignorant response on your part.
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He went after Fox News. He used alternative facts with ObamaCare. Openly went after the Tea Party using the IRS. He also rejected the historical fact that multiculturalism destroys civilizations, and the fact that Muslims openly hate us.
 
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#200
#200
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
No, you voted for Trump - who can't seem to stop lying. About everything from financial interests to private servers. Good job getting duped.
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Getting duped? He has done exactly what he said he'd do. That is the opposite getting duped

I'd say the shoe is on the other foot
 
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