Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXI

[St. JohnVolCactus]

Calling CBJ a lame duck at this point is absolutely ridiculous. He has every opportunity to extend his tenure next year by having a good season and winning the east. He has the talent to compete, and the upcoming coaching changes could make this staff stronger, especially on the defensive side. The players still seem to be playing hard for their coach, and I think they will next year as well.

Your argument is based on the assumption that CBJ still wants to return UT to greatness. Does he, or has he been discouraged? If he is over the situation here at UT - expectations, media pressure, eating of our young, internal political battles, AD and booster delimmas, very public gaffes, etc. - then he very much is a lame duck. He would have left this year according to reports; he wants out. The shine is off his pitch, two years of heartbreak and disappointment, very bad PR around his 2016 team mismanagement, not to mention him being a laughingstock meme in 2015 and the butt of public trolling by top in-state recruits in 2016. Yeah this guy is a lame duck with the only impetus to have a great season being to set himself up and get the hell out of Knoxville. Even if he wins big, he is gone on his own accord.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I think recruiting has got to factor in as well. 9-3 and no east, but a top 5 class and he's good to go. Less than 9 wins and a another class like the current one and things are getting warmer.

9-3 and no east and he's not signing a top 5 class.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Which is why CBJ will most likely choose Canales. CBJ has some sort of connection with Canales but I'm not sure what it is.

I get the feeling the whole process after Debord leaving has pretty much been a charade with a pre-determined outcome for some time as to who would be the OC and QB coach.

Bingo!

 

[BigZiti09]

Assuming that is offset by any money he makes at his next job.

Not undoable.

It's easily doable. Dooley just left the books. Just replace it with Jones. No biggie.

They could afford to fire him now but next year would be better. Give him his last chance and if he fails you pop him and get into the market early.

 

[VAVolsFan2009]

I've looked back at the discussions over the past several days, and I'm just shaking my head. As I've said in the past, CBJ is still a work in progress, but he has brought the program a long ways. I remember an interview with some famous retired coach (can't remember who) back when CBJ was first hired, who laughed at CBJ being judged on being able to bring the program back in 3 years. He said that given the terrible state of the roster, it would take at least 6 years to the team back to where it would be able to compete for championships.

I read so many people on here bashing CBJ and everything Vols just because you can't get NCs right away. Patience on VN is non-existent. I think 8-4 is a good outcome for 2017 given the talent we are replacing and rebuilding from all the injuries. We will all know when or if CBJ needs to go if the team begins to regress.

 

[31VFL]

Brice also said there was another candidate for QB coach that he didn't have a name for.

 

[Mike4Vols]

You mean sheep.

If JG isnt the starter, that means Butch Jones should be fired immediately cause it proves he has no idea what he's doing.

The guy has continually let better players sit on the bench in favor of seniority. It'll be unacceptable if it happens again.

Yea, like letting Dobbs play this year instead of Guarantano, who is clearly physically superior? A lot more goes into that decision.

You are an idiot.

 

[orangesoda]

9-3 and no east and he's not signing a top 5 class.

I think 8-4 will be the absolute best we do but I don't see it happening!

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Funny how Matt was respected and beloved around here until his opinion turned south.

Sure made me raise my eyebrows. If Canales is hired along with Scott, then it will sure make me think even more about his comment.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I've looked back at the discussions over the past several days, and I'm just shaking my head. As I've said in the past, CBJ is still a work in progress, but he has brought the program a long ways. I remember an interview with some famous retired coach (can't remember who) back when CBJ was first hired, who laughed at CBJ being judged on being able to bring the program back in 3 years. He said that given the terrible state of the roster, it would take at least 6 years to the team back to where it would be able to compete for championships.

I read so many people on here bashing CBJ and everything Vols just because you can't get NCs right away. Patience on VN is non-existent. I think 8-4 is a good outcome for 2017 given the talent we are replacing and rebuilding from all the injuries. We will all know when or if CBJ needs to go if the team begins to regress.

The problem with that is recruiting means everything and as we've noticed these last couple months, Butch is losing the negative recruiting battle from the competition. Perception is reality and Butch needs to WIN in order to keep landing top 5/10 classes, the honeymoon is over. It might not be fair to him considering what he inherited but fair isn't reality.

The bottom line is that Butch has done a GREAT job rebuilding the program and stocking the cupboard but if he doesn't win the East this fall it's very likely someone else will be taking over as HC at UT.

UT is in a good enough spot now program wise, thanks to Hart and Butch, to attract a top tier coach. They can't afford to give Butch 3 or 4 years more to figure it out, he must win NOW before the roster isn't attractive anymore to an elite replacement.

Maybe this is as far as Butch can take UT? Maybe not? I hope he goes 15-0 next fall and lands the #1 class, it's certainly possible...

 

[jspvol76]

Your argument is based on the assumption that CBJ still wants to return UT to greatness. Does he, or has he been discouraged? If he is over the situation here at UT - expectations, media pressure, eating of our young, internal political battles, AD and booster delimmas, very public gaffes, etc. - then he very much is a lame duck. He would have left this year according to reports; he wants out. The shine is off his pitch, two years of heartbreak and disappointment, very bad PR around his 2016 team mismanagement, not to mention him being a laughingstock meme in 2015 and the butt of public trolling by top in-state recruits in 2016. Yeah this guy is a lame duck with the only impetus to have a great season being to set himself up and get the hell out of Knoxville. Even if he wins big, he is gone on his own accord.

So your saying he could have a very good year next year and win the east, but that he will leave on his own accord because he is tired of being a coach at a big time university and all that comes with it? Interesting. This means you must have some personal insight into his mindset. Do you sit behind him at church, are you his neighbor, maybe your kids are friends with his kids? Please tell us more about how CBJ is feeling.

Also, by definition a lame duck has no control over what happens next, but you are saying he would leave on his own accord. Makes zero sense.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Who has bad mouthed or disparaged him? I think we are holding our collective breath hoping that this year was just a bump in the road.


Well there are some that are hoping we tank next year because they hate Butch. However, most of us are hoping for a smooth road and renewed success next year.

The problem is that the extremists are framing the narrative. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. They know that is what happens, which is why they are pushing it so hard. They hate Butch, and want him fired no matter what, so whatever it takes to make that happen is ok with them. I hope he makes a comeback for the ages, just so we can laugh at them unmercifully. I doubt Butch, and some things he does piss me off, some things he does I love. I just want him to succeed.

 

[BruinVol]

9-3 and no east and he's not signing a top 5 class.

Just to clarify, do we have posters saying Jones gets fired going 9-3 because he didn't win the easy?

 

[MrVolton]

9-3 and no east and he's not signing a top 5 class.

Depends on how we look on the field IMO. We could lose to Bama, LSU, and barely get edged out of the east by UGA. But if Guarantano looks like the world beater we all think he could be and new staffers are significant enough upgrades in both development and recruiting, we could have a much better class next year than what we've got this year.

 

[InVOLuntary]

At 6-6 he's getting fired. Nobody negotiates a buyout to hire away a 6-6 guy.

Also, to an earlier point you made...how many fans do you think are gonna be in the stands when a 6 win Tennessee team is taking on Vandy at 9pm on the SECN in late November?

Fans in the stands is not necessarily indicative of lost revenue. It's more about season ticket sales and the associated donations. Those won't be known until well after the season.

6-6 may get him fired under certain circumstances but if the perception is that the future is brighter in 18 and beyond, he'll be here.

If Larry is right and it's SECE or bust, he's gone. No way we win it next year.

 

[VOL-uh-tile]

Dont know others stance on this, but if I were Butch I'd be putting a lot of my energy into the 18 class about now. Compared to the start of the 17 class it seems at least as promising, and TN talent has way more to offer in it imo.

 

[Tennessee Golfer]

Coach Z has already scored two TDs for the Steelers in the first 8 minutes.

 

[Mike4Vols]

Depends on how we look on the field IMO. We could lose to Bama, LSU, and barely get edged out of the east by UGA. But if Guarantano looks like the world beater we all think he could be and new staffers are significant enough upgrades in both development and recruiting, we could have a much better class next year than what we've got this year.

Agreed. It won't solely be won-loss record that determines his job status. Other factors like attendance, player development, defections, and public perception weight into it.

Could he win 9 games and still be fired? Yeah, I think it's possible.

 

[McGeesPub]

I've looked back at the discussions over the past several days, and I'm just shaking my head. As I've said in the past, CBJ is still a work in progress, but he has brought the program a long ways. I remember an interview with some famous retired coach (can't remember who) back when CBJ was first hired, who laughed at CBJ being judged on being able to bring the program back in 3 years. He said that given the terrible state of the roster, it would take at least 6 years to the team back to where it would be able to compete for championships.

I read so many people on here bashing CBJ and everything Vols just because you can't get NCs right away. Patience on VN is non-existent. I think 8-4 is a good outcome for 2017 given the talent we are replacing and rebuilding from all the injuries. We will all know when or if CBJ needs to go if the team begins to regress.

Shake your head at what? If anyone is disappointed that we haven't won the NC under Butch, they are delusional. The playoffs was pie in the sky for this year, and those putting us in the top 4 next year aren't doing their future blood pressure any favors. But there haven't been hardly any "Oh no! No NC yet!"

People are legitimately worried that we've peaked under Butch though. The same record the past two years, with a pretty big talent drain for next year, and average recent recruiting certainly supports that view. There really isn't much about the program that is trending up right now.

So yes, that coach was right that this was a big rebuilding job. The foundation seems to be there, for a window of a couple of years anyway. Not unusual that someone different is responsible for finishing the house.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I've looked back at the discussions over the past several days, and I'm just shaking my head. As I've said in the past, CBJ is still a work in progress, but he has brought the program a long ways. I remember an interview with some famous retired coach (can't remember who) back when CBJ was first hired, who laughed at CBJ being judged on being able to bring the program back in 3 years. He said that given the terrible state of the roster, it would take at least 6 years to the team back to where it would be able to compete for championships.

I read so many people on here bashing CBJ and everything Vols just because you can't get NCs right away. Patience on VN is non-existent. I think 8-4 is a good outcome for 2017 given the talent we are replacing and rebuilding from all the injuries. We will all know when or if CBJ needs to go if the team begins to regress.

The team regressed this year. Much more undisciplined and lacluster than last year. There were times when they looked lost on the field. Take at least 6 years? Ok 2017 is year 5 and here you are saying that 8-4 is perfectly acceptable. Its this type of thinking thats just sad. So, 8-4 is acceptable? Lets explore that a little. Alabama is a given loss, we know that. I think LSU beats us as well. That leaves 2 more losses. Now lets say this year goes like 2016, we find a miracle to beat UGA and UF in the same season. Yet lose 2 to either UK, Mizzou or SC and Vandy again, would that be acceptable? Would you be fine with losses to Alabama, LSU, SOuth Carolina and Vandy?

We are losing players yes, but every other team is as well. If Butch is a good coach and has done his job, then we shouldnt see that much, if any drop off. Nobody with a functioning brain is expecting NCs with Tennessee iunder Butch Jones. But playing for and winning the East title should be expected. But that hasnt happened.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Calling CBJ a lame duck at this point is absolutely ridiculous. He has every opportunity to extend his tenure next year by having a good season and winning the east. He has the talent to compete, and the upcoming coaching changes could make this staff stronger, especially on the defensive side. The players still seem to be playing hard for their coach, and I think they will next year as well.

The thing about the team playing hard is what gives me real hope. I have never seen a team go through so much adversity, and still keep swinging like this one did. Most would have quit like UF did in their 4-8 year. That is a indication of what Butch could really be if gets through this. I do wish he was a better front runnner.

 

[BigZiti09]

Fans in the stands is not necessarily indicative of lost revenue. It's more about season ticket sales and the associated donations. Those won't be known until well after the season.

6-6 may get him fired under certain circumstances but if the perception is that the future is brighter in 18 and beyond, he'll be here.

If Larry is right and it's SECE or bust, he's gone. No way we win it next year.

Why not? Florida won it this year. No reason we can't be as good as they were this year.

 

[chavisut]

Should be about results on the field ATP. Not recruiting classes.

 

[Kingston Vol]

It's easily doable. Dooley just left the books. Just replace it with Jones. No biggie.

They could afford to fire him now but next year would be better. Give him his last chance and if he fails you pop him and get into the market early.

I'm the negative ******* of the board, but my guess is sometime in the middle of the season. Gives us enough time to hire someone and allow them to recruit.

 

[McGeesPub]

Should be about results on the field ATP. Not recruiting classes.

Whether the results are there on the field or not, it ALWAYS has to be about recruiting classes.