What are our insiders hearing?

#602
#602
VOL-uh-tile said:
. . . No coach should want to come here with these kinds of fans.
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Do you really think the fanbase of the University of Tennessee football program is uniquely demanding, delusional or falsely privledged?

There are many, many schools out there with nearly identically irrational fans.

Any coach who is in the game at the P5 level knows the story. It's part of the gig.
 
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#603
#603
Smokey'sHandler said:
You're right there is no reason it can't work out but let's look at the coaches and situations in that 25 years (minus Price and Kines)

Ray Perkins (83-86)

Reason for leaving: Accepted Head Coaching job for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Bill Curry (87-89)

Reason for leaving: Accepted Head Coaching job at Univ. of Ky. after contract dispute with Alabama

Gene Stallings (90-96)

Reason for leaving: Resigned at the end of 1996. Alabama was about to get the hammer dropped on them due to violations during Stallings' tenure

Mike DuBose (97-00)

Reason for leaving: Fired after 2000 season. Finished 11-3 in 1999. Pre-Season Ranked #3 in 2000 and finished the season at 3-8.

Dennis Franchione (01-02)

Reason for leaving: Accepted Head Coaching job at Texas A&M

Mike Shula (03-06)

Reason for leaving: Fired after 2006 Season. Finished 10-2 in 2005. Expectation was 8-10 wins in 2006 but finished.

The only two firings during the 25 year gap between the Bear and Saban. Both of the firings came after seasons where there were med-high expectations and sharp declines in records. Dubose went from 11-3 to 3-8 in a season with National Title expectations, someone could easily look at that and see why he got the axe. Shula went from 10-2 to 6-6 in a season where they had decent expectations but some could also see why he got the axe. Outside looking in one could see the declines and why they were fired. I would have classified the Bama job as Low-Med Risk. There are expectations at the university (so a coach will have to meet higher expectations) but if they fire somebody it will be due to a sharp decline in performance.

Let's say Nebraska beats us in any fashion and our record is 8-5. The expectations were high this year and there was a 1 game decline, okay it happens. The program is running clean with little to no player issues (arrests), our academics are doing very well, we have the #1 recruit by some services committed for next year and oh yeah he turned a dumpster fire into a Top 25 program (remember we are ranked #21 in the CFP Poll).

And we can him because he didn't meet expectations in one year, a mild decline in record and he may not be the best in press conferences. This right here is the definition of High Risk because yeah you can do well, build us up and build up expectations but if you have one year where you don't meet the expectations and there is a slight decline you might as well hit the road jack! This job will come with zero security attached and be a rotten looking egg to any decent coach.

I'm not saying there's no reason it couldn't work out but probability will not be on the side of success if Jones is fired right now.
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bill curry was fired.
 
#605
#605
jakez4ut said:
bill curry was fired.
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"In early 1990, Alabama tendered Curry a new contract which contained provisions he disliked, including no raise and removal of his power to hire and fire assistants.[7] Curry was particularly upset by this since he'd led the Tide to a share of its first SEC title and its first major-bowl appearance since the Bryant era. He responded by accepting an offer to become the head coach at the University of Kentucky."

My "Source Inside the Program" says otherwise
 

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#606
#606
Smokey'sHandler said:
. . . This job will come with zero security attached and be a rotten looking egg to any decent coach. . .
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Every collegiate and professional football coach in America takes the job with the expectation of getting fired. If they don't they're stupid, because it happens to far, far more than it doesn't. The notion of job "security" to a football coach is laughable.

Further, look at the contracts they get. Getting fired isn't exactly the same as losing your job at the local factory. Most can live very comfortably if they never work another day in their life.

The only possible downside as a result of UT's recent history would be the terms of the contract itself. It might give a candidate a little more leverage to push for a longer term or bigger buyout, but the program's past isn't going to dissuade anyone.
 
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#607
#607
Smokey'sHandler said:
"In early 1990, Alabama tendered Curry a new contract which contained provisions he disliked, including no raise and removal of his power to hire and fire assistants.[7] Curry was particularly upset by this since he'd led the Tide to a share of its first SEC title and its first major-bowl appearance since the Bryant era. He responded by accepting an offer to become the head coach at the University of Kentucky."

My "Source Inside the Program" says otherwise
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he couldn't beat Auburn, so they whacked his contract, no raise, no extension, not allowed to hire anyone, so what they wanted was for him to go sit on the sideline and just do what he was told. and this was a guy that won a share of the SEC, won a sugar bowl. but he doesn't get a raise, extension, and he can't hire his own staff???? sounds like a ringing endorsement to me.

but he wasn't fired. ok.
 
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#609
#609
Smokey'sHandler said:
You're right there is no reason it can't work out but let's look at the coaches and situations in that 25 years (minus Price and Kines)

Ray Perkins (83-86)

Reason for leaving: Accepted Head Coaching job for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Bill Curry (87-89)

Reason for leaving: Accepted Head Coaching job at Univ. of Ky. after contract dispute with Alabama

Gene Stallings (90-96)

Reason for leaving: Resigned at the end of 1996. Alabama was about to get the hammer dropped on them due to violations during Stallings' tenure

Mike DuBose (97-00)

Reason for leaving: Fired after 2000 season. Finished 11-3 in 1999. Pre-Season Ranked #3 in 2000 and finished the season at 3-8.

Dennis Franchione (01-02)

Reason for leaving: Accepted Head Coaching job at Texas A&M

Mike Shula (03-06)

Reason for leaving: Fired after 2006 Season. Finished 10-2 in 2005. Expectation was 8-10 wins in 2006 but finished.

The only two firings during the 25 year gap between the Bear and Saban. Both of the firings came after seasons where there were med-high expectations and sharp declines in records. Dubose went from 11-3 to 3-8 in a season with National Title expectations, someone could easily look at that and see why he got the axe. Shula went from 10-2 to 6-6 in a season where they had decent expectations but some could also see why he got the axe. Outside looking in one could see the declines and why they were fired. I would have classified the Bama job as Low-Med Risk. There are expectations at the university (so a coach will have to meet higher expectations) but if they fire somebody it will be due to a sharp decline in performance.

Let's say Nebraska beats us in any fashion and our record is 8-5. The expectations were high this year and there was a 1 game decline, okay it happens. The program is running clean with little to no player issues (arrests), our academics are doing very well, we have the #1 recruit by some services committed for next year and oh yeah he turned a dumpster fire into a Top 25 program (remember we are ranked #21 in the CFP Poll).

And we can him because he didn't meet expectations in one year, a mild decline in record and he may not be the best in press conferences. This right here is the definition of High Risk because yeah you can do well, build us up and build up expectations but if you have one year where you don't meet the expectations and there is a slight decline you might as well hit the road jack! This job will come with zero security attached and be a rotten looking egg to any decent coach.

I'm not saying there's no reason it couldn't work out but probability will not be on the side of success if Jones is fired right now.
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You forgot Mike Price between Coach Fran and Shula
 
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#610
#610
landscapingvol said:
They are hearing that Jones will be here for at least next year and more than likely 2018. Chances are that are Debord will be here next year and the most likely changes will occur on defense. Butch was never on the hot seat this year and Gruden is not coming
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Have talks with Helfrich deceased?
 
#615
#615
Volsfaninva917 said:
Sorry, but Chavis is no more than a name anymore.
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Boys no joke JIM BOB COOTER will lead the VOLS out of the Tunnel, he is the Lion's OC and his name is coming up alot in the NFL for top OC JOBS, BUTCH watch your azz old JIM BOB COOTER is on his way in 18.:clapping:
 
#616
#616
Smokey'sHandler said:
I hate to sound like a doomsday guy but I firmly believe if this happens welcome back to the darkness for our program for multiple years. What coach of any good caliber would want to come to a knee-jerk program that would show him the door after 4 years of progress and an 8 win season. I don't care if there is a committee they only way that someone big time would come here after that would be someone who gets thrown a huge wad of cash and a huge buyout because we will officially be a high-risk program. The only interest would come from an up-and coming coach like Jones would want a challenge. Welcome to the next couple of years being maybe 6+ wins but it will be okay since this coach is rebuilding then we can him after three years and put yet another quarter in the coaching merry-go-round.

I'm usually a very positive guy but I foresee a HC change right now being the first step to yet another downward spiral.
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Why not just fire him anyway?

-Some guy that heard something in the bathroom.
 
#621
#621
SaintLouisVol said:
Every collegiate and professional football coach in America takes the job with the expectation of getting fired. If they don't they're stupid, because it happens to far, far more than it doesn't. The notion of job "security" to a football coach is laughable.

Further, look at the contracts they get. Getting fired isn't exactly the same as losing your job at the local factory. Most can live very comfortably if they never work another day in their life.

The only possible downside as a result of UT's recent history would be the terms of the contract itself. It might give a candidate a little more leverage to push for a longer term or bigger buyout, but the program's past isn't going to dissuade anyone.
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That is the sad truth of it I'm afraid. I hope though that the expectation of getting fired is more of a realization in the back your mind knowing that yes it can happen. I will be sickened if UT ever brings in a guy who comes in with the expectation of being fired. This may just be a personal thing but if I were in it I would be in it to be a legend and one of the greats. The greats (like Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, General Neyland) are often defined by decades of success not always success but success within a program. Give me someone with a mentality that he's going to be a legend that instead of a chump who expects to be canned in a couple of years.
 
#622
#622
orange parmejohn said:
Have talks with Helfrich deceased?
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I can't tell you specifically one way or the other but I can tell you that Debord signed an extension very recently so unless the AD is willing to pay the buyout for a guy that had a pretty good year and replace him with another guy that could possibly be worse is just not how the UT AD has worked based on history. If Helfrich were to come here, you can all but guarantee that he would want a multi-year contract and I am not sure that UT would be interested in granting that at this time. You would have to assume that Shoop has a pretty decent buyout if he were to be fired. Logically and financially UT is not in a good position to do a ton of house cleaning at the coordinator and head coach level at this time. Maybe Debord would be willing to step down or retire? Maybe Helfrich wouldn't demand a multi-year contract? Maybe Shoop would be willing to negotiate a smaller buyout or leave on his own? It's possible but not likely imho.
 
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#624
#624
Until UT hires an AD, all of this is irrelevant. If UT hires an AD that believes CBJ can get it done then maybe he is willing to offer a multi year contract to a guy like Helfrich, but if UT hires someone who does not believe CBJ can get it done he or she isn't going to be very open to hiring a big name OC with a big price tag just to have to buy him out next year.
 
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