Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXX

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#7,353
#7,353
Atzar said:
Vols fans are too invested to be rational about their own program. Any bad loss is the end of the world. When somebody else has a bad loss, we're detached from the situation. We have a much easier time viewing it logically.

Realistically, the loss to the Sun Belt team doesn't mean Mullen is a bad coach... just means that **** happens. And realistically, our season doesn't prove Butch is a bad coach... just means that he had a bad season. People are pissed at him. People have lost faith in him. These things are justified. He has a lot of work to do to regain his fanbase's confidence.

On the bright side, I do think there were many things about this season that were aberrations from the identity he had established for himself in his first three years here. His teams are usually disciplined and prepared, they usually play hard and they usually play for each other. This year, they committed penalties and blew assignments, they didn't come out of the tunnel ready to play, there was discord in the locker room and injuries to many important players.

There is a chance, based on his first three years here, that much of this was a fluke. If he's still all in for Tennessee, he'll have a chance to prove that next year.

But if he's looking for a way out, **** him.
Click to expand...

Lots of wisdom in this post. If he's got one foot out the door it will show up next season.
 
#7,354
#7,354
I think it's tough to say. He hasn't helped himself at all the last six weeks.

There are only four active head coaches that have won a national championship. That's a crazy low number. For Bob Stoops it was 15 years ago.

I think it's really, really hard to be at that level. And, frankly, I'm not sure the admin is ready to compete at that level. I think Dave hart had it going in that direction, but they weren't there all around.

Tennessee's facilities aren't the jaw-dropper they were a decade ago. Everyone has what Tennessee has now and then some. Check out Clemson's new facility. UGA is finally getting it's indoor, so is FSU.

Some of Tennessee's selling points just aren't what they used to be. It's a hard place to win given the recruiting base, but that's improving.

What worries me there is Tennessee hasn't taken as much advantage of it the last two years after using it to build its roster early on.

So, if you make a change, there has to be greater commitment from the University as a whole. They have to be ready to grow the recruiting staff and bump the pay of the QC/"interns" guys to get in former position coaches.

Now, on the field, Butch has certainly had his shortcomings. But, the program is in a much better place now than when he got here. I think the offense has been really good at times and I still think Shoop is better than what we saw this year. Maybe not, but a guy that has top 25 defenses for six years can't just get that bad in one year.

I think some fresh faces on staff could help out, too.

But, and this is hard, it's going to take anyone a while to get to Alabama's level. Saban has forced everyone to commit more. And, plainly, it's just really hard to consistently win in this conference.

So, if you do make a change, you absolutely better feel great about it.

The two biggest questions I have are this:

1. Can Butch get the fan base back?
2. Can Butch win 9/10 games a year consistently and beat Alabama every three/four years?
Click to expand...

-Fort on whether UT is better off with or without Jones moving forward

Bolded is depressing. There is no coordinated "all-in" push from the administrators to make Tennessee great in football again. Just isn't a priority.
 
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#7,355
#7,355
Aesius said:
-Fort on whether UT is better off with or without Jones moving forward

Bolded is depressing. There is no coordinated "all-in" push from the administrators to make Tennessee great in football again. Just isn't a priority.
Click to expand...

If that's the truth they won't get the message until fans stay home and ticket sales take a huge dive.
 
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#7,356
#7,356
jave36 said:
Arkansas fans aren't nearly as unhappy with Bret as we are with Butch. I haven't met a single one who wants Bret gone, and I haven't heard more than 1 or 2 on local radio say that. Almost unanimous that some assistants need to go but not at all that BB needs to go.
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I disagree and work in Arkansas a good bit. The folks I know don't feel he is a good fit and they are donors to the university. They are tired of his antics and don't see him as a coach that can elevate the program. His seat was hot coming into this year and became toasty after the bad LSU loss.
 
#7,360
#7,360
Aesius said:
-Fort on whether UT is better off with or without Jones moving forward

Bolded is depressing. There is no coordinated "all-in" push from the administrators to make Tennessee great in football again. Just isn't a priority.
Click to expand...

It's been the #1 problem for over a decade now.
 
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#7,363
#7,363
Certainly feels like Butch is a lame duck no matter what.

Either he fails next season and gets fired or he succeeds and leaves on his own. The "he's stuck with us, we're stuck with him" thing is 100% correct.

I guess the silver lining is that if Butch does want to punch a non-pink slip ticket out of Knoxville, he's going to need to step it up in recruiting and coaching next year and deliver a solid season.

Whoever the next AD is needs to have a list of viable candidates ready day one and start gauging interest as soon as possible and be prepared to make a move immediately after next year's Vanderbilt game.
 
#7,364
#7,364
Aesius said:
-Fort on whether UT is better off with or without Jones moving forward

Bolded is depressing. There is no coordinated "all-in" push from the administrators to make Tennessee great in football again. Just isn't a priority.
Click to expand...

That's what I've been saying for some time. They look at this as numbers on a spreadsheet. What incentive is there to throwing a bunch of money at the football program? Recovering your investment is a very risky proposition. Your revenue is about tapped out. Why invest $6- $7m in a coach when you people buy up the product anyway? Guess who is one of the most profitable programs in ncaa football. I'll give you a hint, it ain't Bama.
 
#7,365
#7,365
IhateGA said:
It's been the #1 problem for over a decade now.
Click to expand...

Amazing that they still don't get it. Saban has transformed Bama. They are better all around because of him. The university and brand have prestige because of a strong football team.
 
#7,366
#7,366
InVOLuntary said:
That's what I've been saying for some time. They look at this as numbers on a spreadsheet. What incentive is there to throwing a bunch of money at the football program? Recovering your investment is a very risky proposition. Your revenue is about tapped out. Why invest $6- $7m in a coach when you people buy up the product anyway? Guess who is one of the most profitable programs in ncaa football. I'll give you a hint, it ain't Bama.
Click to expand...

Saban's salary is still an absolute bargain for Bama based on how much revenue he generates for them.
 
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#7,367
#7,367
InVOLuntary said:
That's what I've been saying for some time. They look at this as numbers on a spreadsheet. What incentive is there to throwing a bunch of money at the football program? Recovering your investment is a very risky proposition. Your revenue is about tapped out. Why invest $6- $7m in a coach when you people buy up the product anyway? Guess who is one of the most profitable programs in ncaa football. I'll give you a hint, it ain't Bama.
Click to expand...

It used to be so easy for UT fans to fire a coach. All we had to do was not buy popcorn.
 
#7,368
#7,368
IDT anybody's full Mullen. Is anybody full anybody? It's just a bad situation that could go further south very quickly.

If CBJ wants out and can't find anywhere to go, how's that going to work? Players, recruits and position coaches read the headlines, see his pressers and hear what's being said. Who wants to play or work for a coach who'd rather be all-out and is resentfully here to collect paychecks until he can bolt somewhere that will offer low pressure, a high salary and no media scrutiny-- wherever that might be?
 
#7,369
#7,369
Atzar said:
Vols fans are too invested to be rational about their own program. Any bad loss is the end of the world. When somebody else has a bad loss, we're detached from the situation. We have a much easier time viewing it logically.

Realistically, the loss to the Sun Belt team doesn't mean Mullen is a bad coach... just means that **** happens. And realistically, our season doesn't prove Butch is a bad coach... just means that he had a bad season. People are pissed at him. People have lost faith in him. These things are justified. He has a lot of work to do to regain his fanbase's confidence.

On the bright side, I do think there were many things about this season that were aberrations from the identity he had established for himself in his first three years here. His teams are usually disciplined and prepared, they usually play hard and they usually play for each other. This year, they committed penalties and blew assignments, they didn't come out of the tunnel ready to play, there was discord in the locker room and injuries to many important players.

There is a chance, based on his first three years here, that much of this was a fluke. If he's still all in for Tennessee, he'll have a chance to prove that next year.

But if he's looking for a way out, **** him.
Click to expand...

This post erryday.
 
#7,370
#7,370
Aesius said:
-Fort on whether UT is better off with or without Jones moving forward

Bolded is depressing. There is no coordinated "all-in" push from the administrators to make Tennessee great in football again. Just isn't a priority.
Click to expand...

We have one of, arguably THE, worst administrations of the power 5 schools. I wholeheartedly believe that.
 
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#7,371
#7,371
InVOLuntary said:
Lots of wisdom in this post. If he's got one foot out the door it will show up next season.
Click to expand...

It may show up even earlier than that.

He has a lot of work to do over the next couple of months. He needs to prove that he's still invested in his current job by improving his team in time for the bowl game, and by closing strong in the 2017 recruiting class.

If the team shows no progress on the field in the next month, and we miss on many of our key recruiting targets, then I'd take it as a sign of no commitment and I'd be ready to cut our losses. It's also worth noting that this would likely give our BOT enough time to make a hire at AD, which would obviously be important for any potential coaching search.
 
#7,372
#7,372
LA Vol said:
IDT anybody's full Mullen. Is anybody full anybody? It's just a bad situation that could go further south very quickly.

If CBJ wants out and can't find anywhere to go, how's that going to work? Players, recruits and position coaches read the headlines, see his pressers and hear what's being said. Who wants to play or work for a coach who'd rather be all-out and is resentfully here to collect paychecks until he can bolt somewhere that will offer low pressure, a high salary and no media scrutiny-- wherever that might be?
Click to expand...

Chip Kelly. He's my white whale. We'll never get him but, that won't stop me from attempting to convince myself that he could come here under the right circumstances.

He may have a little baggage, but oh well...nothing that causes me too much concern. H

He would turn Guarantano into Mariota or try as hard as he could to do so.
 
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#7,373
#7,373
VFL34 said:
Butch needs a complete over haul with all his coaches, and he needs to let go of his control over who ever is hired. This loss to Vanderbilt and South Carolina completely exposed him of not being able to coach under the pressure. I believe that the players will have butch jones back. He has done a phenomenal job on bringing this program back. The program is where it needs to be. sometimes though the person that rebuilt something isn't always the person to take it to the next level.
Click to expand...

If the entire coaching staff needs an overhaul then just get rid of the man running everything. How tough is this?
 
#7,374
#7,374
Aesius said:
Saban's salary is still an absolute bargain for Bama based on how much revenue he generates for them.
Click to expand...

That program generates a ton of revenue but they spend it. They spend a lot of it. They have a dedication to winning like has never been. It is similar to the way an NFL franchise is ran.
 
#7,375
#7,375
BigOrangeVols said:
If the entire coaching staff needs an overhaul then just get rid of the man running everything. How tough is this?
Click to expand...

We are literally repeating and reliving history.

If something eventually needs to be done, just go ahead and get it done. No one benefits from prolonging the inevitable.
 
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