Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

[volssam]

I agree and didn't hear him say that. It should be a free market economy, if you don't want to make a cake for a customer don't, that customer is free to find someone who does. However if you keep refusing to make cakes you may soon be out of business. I think he may be touching on the idea of inclusion but probably didn't elucidate it very well.

I liked Petersen. And was planning on looking more into him had he won. Even though he was agnostic, he was big on religious freedom.and disagreed with Johnson in the debate on the bakery thing

 

[bignewt]

I think the success in this election may draw better potential candidates to the cause, I am optimistic for the future.

 

[Mick]

I agree and didn't hear him say that. It should be a free market economy, if you don't want to make a cake for a customer don't, that customer is free to find someone who does. However if you keep refusing to make cakes you may soon be out of business. I think he may be touching on the idea of inclusion but probably didn't elucidate it very well.

I think they are out of business.

 

[BigZiti09]

On the second point, exactly ! Is this not the basis of a FREE country ? People should be free to choose, choose if they wanna bake a cake or not. No matter the reason. No matter the reason whatsoever. If people don't like It, then they can "protest" by taking their business somewhere else and in this day and age, by writing a review, which hurts that business.

On the first point, I strongly but respectfully disagree. If you read.Romans 1 and also the book of Jude, people can interpret that to be giving approval to and/or "bidding godspeed" to sin.

And my points I made when discussing this with someone months ago, why force the bakeries? The LGBT lobby won. The supreme Court gave them their victory in legalizing same sex marriage. So why can't they just take that and let it be? Why do.they feel like they have to try to force others to agree with them ? Why can't they accept.this compromise ? They have their freedom. Why crush other's freedom?

Its different than baking a cake just to bake a cake. Most religious people see a wedding as a religious ceremony before God. And that's what it's about. From my understanding, it's not about homosexually in and of itself, as the bakers make cakes for gay people, in normal everyday business. So it's not homophobia or discrimination against a lifestyle.

But when it comes to the religious expression of a marriage ceremony , they don't want to participate in that in any way because they feel it would violate their faith and conscience.

It seems so logical to me. The LGBT community should take.their victory given to them.by the supreme Court and be content. Let people be free to.run their businesses as they see fit. But oh well.

Can't disagree with any of that. I guess we all have to decide when it violates our beliefs. If you are a cab driver and people need a ride to a gay wedding do you turn them away? IDK. We could come up with endless scenarios.

I don't see how anyone could be forced to bake the cake though. Nor do I understand why they would want them to. Go get another baker. Seems easy.

 

[volssam]

Can't disagree with any of that. I guess we all have to decide when it violates our beliefs. If you are a cab driver and people need a ride to a gay wedding do you turn them away? IDK. We could come up with endless scenarios.

I don't see how anyone could be forced to bake the cake though. Nor do I understand why they would want them to. Go get another baker. Seems easy.

Indeed.

And yeah there are many scenarios.

When I was a teenager, I worked as a server. I worked at shoneys. I could have tried to work other places and probably made more money. But I knew shoneys didn't serve alcohol. And if I worked somewhere and had to serve alcohol that would have violated my conscience. And I know I'm more conservative than most on that. But it's how I was taught.

 

[volssam]

Also the right of conscience when it comes to religious freedom impacts more than just bakers with gay weddings. It also affects those in healthcare, such as pharmacies that dispense abortion pills. Some techs/pharmacists don't want to.dispense it. They shouldn't have to. The buyer should just go to another pharmacy instead of litigating and trying to force others to agree with them and ruin someone's livelihood and means to support their family. Maddening

 

[itsme]

Sam, reading your posts, I can tell that you and I line up politically, religiously and philosophically pretty well.

On the cake thing....I have two points on that...

If you bake cakes, then bake the cake. You aren't being asked to minister the wedding. Just bake the stupid cake. You chose to be a baker.

That said, I don't see how you force someone to make a cake if they don't want to. If the baker doesn't want to bake your lesbian wedding cake, go find someone who does.

I am a owner rights person. I feel that any entity should not have the right to tell a person how they should or should not operate their company. Being a bald white man, if there is a restaurant that wants to serve only blacks that is that business owners choice, I will not go there. Same for if the business owner wants to serve only whites, it is that owners right to choose but I would never eat at that restaurant or support and of that persons businesses. Same goes with smoking, LGBTMNSITSD, animal rights, whoever, I want to know the real person and not wonder if someone is hocking a giant snot ball in my food.

 

[BJHSVol]

On the second point, exactly ! Is this not the basis of a FREE country ? People should be free to choose, choose if they wanna bake a cake or not. No matter the reason. No matter the reason whatsoever. If people don't like It, then they can "protest" by taking their business somewhere else and in this day and age, by writing a review, which hurts that business.

On the first point, I strongly but respectfully disagree. If you read.Romans 1 and also the book of Jude, people can interpret that to be giving approval to and/or "bidding godspeed" to sin.

And my points I made when discussing this with someone months ago, why force the bakeries? The LGBT lobby won. The supreme Court gave them their victory in legalizing same sex marriage. So why can't they just take that and let it be? Why do.they feel like they have to try to force others to agree with them ? Why can't they accept.this compromise ? They have their freedom. Why crush other's freedom?

Its different than baking a cake just to bake a cake. Most religious people see a wedding as a religious ceremony before God. And that's what it's about. From my understanding, it's not about homosexually in and of itself, as the bakers make cakes for gay people, in normal everyday business. So it's not homophobia or discrimination against a lifestyle.

But when it comes to the religious expression of a marriage ceremony , they don't want to participate in that in any way because they feel it would violate their faith and conscience.

It seems so logical to me. The LGBT community should take.their victory given to them.by the supreme Court and be content. Let people be free to.run their businesses as they see fit. But oh well.

I get what you're saying, but it's a slippery slope from that to segregation. It's about not allowing precedence. what if it's a whole business refusing to serve gay people?

We have protected classes for a refuse: to prevent legalized discrimination and segregation

 

[volssam]

I get what you're saying, but it's a slippery slope from that to segregation. It's about not allowing precedence. what if it's a whole business refusing to serve gay people?

We have protected classes for a refuse: to prevent legalized discrimination and segregation

As itsme posted above, which I almost posted something similar myself , but was afraid how it would be taken... Leave it up to private businesses.

If they want to be actual true-life racists or bigots and not serve certain people, so be it. I would hope businesses wouldn't do that. And I dont think very many businesses would do that. But if they did, you would at least know who they were and could know who people really are in their hearts and could take.your business elsewhere, you know?

Forced acceptance /tolerance doesnt get rid of racism or bigotry. It just forces them to hide it. We've come far enough in this country (or at least it seemed like we had til the past couple years or so) that I think any businesses/people that would try to segregate their businesses would be few and far between.

And again, at least theyd be out in the open. But let them be free to make those choices if they want to

 

[Catbone]

"How did this happen?!" they cry.

You want to know how this happened? You want to know how America resorted to bigotry and racism? You want to know how we let a TV star with no experience get to the White House? You want to know why we couldn’t stop being stupid enough to listen to what you had to say?

I can explain.

Ten years ago I never had to tell somebody my wife was black and children were of mixed race to get them to stop assuming I was racist.

Ten years ago I didn’t have to tell somebody I’m bisexual to get them to stop assuming I was being homophobic.

Ten years ago I didn’t have to tell people I’ve read the Qu’ran to get them to stop assuming I was ignorant of Islam.

Fifteen years ago I had pride in my nation.

Twenty years ago I didn’t have to worry about the government spying on my because I sat next to someone suspicious on a plane.

Twenty years ago I didn’t have to worry about getting kidnapped for being an American in most other countries.

Twenty years ago 50 corporations made up 90% of the media market; today its 6.

Thirty years ago people weren’t being attacked by animals in the streets over who they voted for.

This is the country that brought the world electricity, the light bulb, that tamed the last frontiers in the world, that carved the faces of great men into mountains, that brought us powered flight, that broke the sound barrier, brought Europe peace after the most destructive war ever seen, tried to play nice but brought forth a fury never seen before when we were attacked, sent men to the Moon. But something happened.

We began intervening in other nations’ conflicts. We started trying to develop this network of power across the world. We started fighting wars for money. And when we were attacked harder than ever before, we pulled our punches and used it as an excuse to fight somebody that wasn’t even responsible.

We voted for change and change never came. We voted for the young charismatic man, and he sold us a bridge. He was given near complete power to bring change and what he brought us was a hamfisted attempt at health-care reform that he didn’t understand and we didn’t want. He promises change from the needless wars and brings us anonymous murder from above on an unprecedented scale. And because he happened to be President when gays got the right to marry, we are supposed to think of him positively?

Let me ask you, when was the last time you heard a song written with this much national pride?

We are tired of being led down the path of shame. We are tired of fighting other people’s wars. We are tired to the globalist network of power. We are tired of the oligarchy. We are tired of being undisputably the single most powerful nation to ever exist on this Earth and yet not being able to win the wars that corporations, industries, and oligarchs get us into because our leaders want to pretend war is an opportunity to be culturally sensitive and play nice.

But when we try to voice these concerns and desires we are called racist because the person we disagree with is black. We are called sexist because the person we disagree with is a woman. We are called homophobic for saying there are bigger priorities for the President than deciding who uses what bathroom. We are called Islamohobic for expecting our ultra-powerful military and police might to be able to provide us security. We are called rednecks, and fools, and morons, all because we disagree.

And we are told we should not disagree, because the “experts” say so? Like Nate Silver, who has been wrong about everything since 2012? Who was wrong about the results of the 2014 Midterms, the Brexit vote, the Primaries, the World Series, and the General election? I’m only an amateur analyst and I outperformed him.

We should just believe CNN who has been proven to feed information to political parties? Who orders their focus groups on how to respond? Who cuts the audio from anyone that strays from the narrative they sell?

The pollsters, who were so incredibly wrong about 2012, Brexit, and 2016?

Why should we believe the “experts” who get paid more and more for being right when they can’t get anything right?

Then a man we’ve known for decades shows up and decides to speak up for us - and you call him racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamaphobic, arachnaphobic and whatever else. But he speaks to us and for us. And you try to shut him up. You cast him as a reality TV star with no knowledge, while peddling Hollywood stars with no knowledge, as if Donald Trump has not been a household name for four decades?

Then all the people we’ve been sick of, the Bush family, the Clinton family, the Obama Administration, the elite of the world and the market and media all of these people we have been trying to get to change team up against this man. And you think we can’t see through that?

You lied about polls and when we saw through it you called us paranoid. You lied about crime committed and called us paranoid. You lied about the medical status of a public figure, for gods sake, and called us paranoid. Yet time after time when we were right, you just said “A broken clock is right twice a day!”

No.

This happened because we are so sick of you. We are so sick of not being heard. We are tired of being brushed off when we speak, so we don’t speak often. The Silent Majority.

Michael Moore of all people, was the only one of you globalist to ever actually GET IT. You don’t get it. Michael Moore, of aaaaaall people said words that brought me to tears because of how accurate he was.

The media didn’t want him.

The GOP establishment didn’t want him.

The pollsters didn’t want him.

The globalists didn’t want him.

The NeoCons didn’t want him.

The Socialists didn’t want him.

The global power brokers didn’t want him.

But the people who are tired of fighting these wars our military isn’t allowed to win, tired of being robbed, tired of being taxed to poverty, tired of being insulted, tired of being slandered, tired of being lied to, tired of our livelihoods being given away, tired of being brushed off - yeah, US, we wanted him.

He isn't any of the things you try to tell us he is. We saw through it and you still lie even in defeat.

At the worst, he will be a message, louder and stronger than we have ever been.

And, at best, he will take us back to the Moon, up to the stars, build unrivaled monuments that will last centuries, bring back our jobs and our pride.

 

[bignewt]

If he gets us out of international conflicts I will give him props.

Doubt that will happen.

I expect more of the establishment. He is already embracing it.

Get ready to be disappointed brother.

 

[volssam]

Wow, cat, I didn't even vote for him, but that post was pretty inspiring. Haha.

As I said after the election. I am skeptically optimistic. I don't really think he is conservative. But his first 100
Days plan is mostly awesome. I really hope he follows through.

 

[unioncityvol]

obama should call for these protesters to stop and embrace the new regime. however the lib butthurts are loving it

 

[Vols4us]

A Cat on fire!

I say its great to be a deplorable Tennessee Vol!

 

[Kristy*]

I get what you're saying, but it's a slippery slope from that to segregation. It's about not allowing precedence. what if it's a whole business refusing to serve gay people?

We have protected classes for a refuse: to prevent legalized discrimination and segregation

Businesses should never be allowed to refuse business to any group IMO. But they should be allowed to dictate the products they sell. In the cake example, they should be forced to sell any cake they make to any person who wants to buy it; however, they shouldn't be forced to make a specific cake that goes against their beliefs.

 

[Kristy*]

So the liberals who have always call themselves the tolerant party, are rioting, damaging property, dragging people out of their car and beating them because they voted for Trump. AHHHH sore loser maybe? Where is Jess Jackson and Al Sharpton at now? They ought to be doing all they can to stop this crap.

It's funny how the tolerant are only tolerant of other tolerants.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Businesses should never be allowed to refuse business to any group IMO. But they should be allowed to dictate the products they sell. In the cake example, they should be forced to sell any cake they make to any person who wants to buy it; however, they shouldn't be forced to make a specific cake that goes against their beliefs.

I don't think you should force any business to sell anything to anyone. I think the free market will take care of it in the long run. I don't think the Baker should have to sell a cake that will be used in a ceremony they are morally opposed too. JMO

 

[volssam]

Businesses should never be allowed to refuse business to any group IMO. But they should be allowed to dictate the products they sell. In the cake example, they should be forced to sell any cake they make to any person who wants to buy it; however, they shouldn't be forced to make a specific cake that goes against their beliefs.

To be clear from earlier, I wasn't saying private businesses should refuse to serve certain groups of people (other than I don't think they should be forced to violate their faith like in the abortion pill and same sex wedding photography/cake examples. Let people have freedom of religion)

Racism and bigotry are just as sinful as homosexuality and abortion.

But in a country that claims to be free , why not let them have the right to choose to do it if that's what they choose, and then trust that your citizens will be good and human enough to sort that out and not give them business. And protest them by not spending your money there. And again, then you would know who is a racist and a bigot.

Overall we should all try to fulfill the two greatest commandments as Jesus said: Love God and love others.

 

[Catbone]

I mean...

 

[bignewt]

Ill reserve judgement until I see him fill his cabinet. Right now I am guessing a bunch of old retread republican cronies.

 

[Kristy*]

I don't think you should force any business to sell anything to anyone. I think the free market will take care of it in the long run. I don't think the Baker should have to sell a cake that will be used in a ceremony they are morally opposed too. JMO

How would they know if it's a generic wedding cake? They shouldn't be forced to write anything on it they are opposed to, but refusing business to someone shouldn't be allowed either. For any reason.

 

[volssam]

How would they know if it's a generic wedding cake? They shouldn't be forced to write anything on it they are opposed to, but refusing business to someone shouldn't be allowed either. For any reason.

Wanna talk about a slippery slope.....

Allowing the government to force people to do things against their will in a supposed free country....depending on who is in power that can be dangerous territory.

Also there is a difference in businesses being allowed to do it and them actually doing it

 

[volssam]

Should a black Baker be forced to bake a kkk or nazi cake?

Should a Muslim Baker be forced to make a cake topped with bacon?

Should a Vol fan Baker be forced to make a cake for a bama championship celebration ? 😁

Etc

Or should the person buying the cake not just take.their money and business elsewhere.

Again not advocating for hate or discrimination, or saying it should be done.
But advocating against an intrusive and controlling government.

 

[Orange Studs]

Ill reserve judgement until I see him fill his cabinet. Right now I am guessing a bunch of old retread republican cronies.

Yea, Dems would never do that now would they?

 

[Kristy*]

Should a black Baker be forced to bake a kkk or nazi cake? no, because they aren't products they sell.

Should a Muslim Baker be forced to make a cake topped with bacon? no, because they aren't products they sell.

Should a Vol fan Baker be forced to make a cake for a bama championship celebration ? 😁 again, hell no.

Etc

Or should the person buying the cake not just take.their money and business elsewhere.

Again not advocating for hate or discrimination, or saying it should be done.
But advocating against an intrusive and controlling government.

I'm just saying, people should be allowed to discriminate against the product but not the person buying the product. Still sell only the products you want to sell.