Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXIX

Status
Not open for further replies.
#6,402
#6,402
Todays line-up after review of the past two pages:

1) Jalen's mom - :good!::good!::good!: Young people are young people - stuff happens.

2) 6' 4" and 240 lbs. does give Hurd options in the NFL at TE and WR with his speed once he is healthy again. Surprised a couple knowledgeable guys on here have not watched the guy down the road that is an All-Pro that plays with the Titans that is 6' 2" and 248 lbs. by the name of Delanie Walker. Or he could stay around 230 or so and be like Mike Evans and destroy d-backs. Unless you were perfectly developed mentally and physically at the same age, none have the right to throw stones. The best developers of talent do not necessarily coach at UT.

3) If Butch had to "assist" Z last season with his job, he should "assist" Debored with his until the end of the season. Then part as personal friends after the last game. Call the plays yourself, Butch.

4) There is still a huge gap in how UT fans view the program. To some, winning more than losing consistently is acceptable. For others, a return to elite status for good is demanded. I really don't care if the team finishes anything short of first in the division anymore. Anything less is not a good season to me since Butch has spent 4 seasons building and developing a roster.

5) Totally agree with others on LB recruitment. Two starters go down and meh results.

5) Martin should have been allowed to play through his poor play when the staff chose to remove the best natural option at CB from the roster and make him a little used slot. Martin is physically gifted and talented, he just has not perfected technique for whatever reasons. Guess what, neither have the ones that replaced him that are far less talented and aggressive. Pull him out for a quarter here and there to coach him up, but always go with the best you have.

6) Evan. Offense. Today. Especially now that Hurd is gone.

7) Need big tough DT's.

8) Dobbs. With no threat of losing the job in his senior season, how has it turned out? Continued regression and bad decision making. Turnovers beyond imagination. Butch always says he is a competition guy at every position. Right. Not buying. Great as a person. Bright future outside of football. Messed up as a football player. It happens.

9) Trey Smith or equivalent for the O-line. Elite CB's and LB's are a must have. Love the Ignont commitment.

10) C'mon Butch. Throw the dang ball to JJ. A dozen targets a game. Add in at least a half dozen to Malone and several to Wolf. JJ beats double and triple teams. Throw the ball to JJ. Remember the slant pass like we have said on here for 4 seasons. We know it is in your playbook, you and Debored just forget to call it at times.

Have a good day RF. Seriously.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#6,403
#6,403
The single coaching failure I can see has been the lack of preparation among the back up RBs for the "mesh" in the zone read with Dobbs. Has cost us two games, more or less.
 
#6,405
#6,405
omghulkhands said:
Just a friendly reminder that James Franklin had back to back 9-4 years


...at Vanderbilt

And we like to call Franklin a fraud on this board, but what does that make Butch?
Click to expand...

Penn St. has a really good shot at finishing 10-2 this year. They play Iowa next, and still travel to Indiana but those are their toughest remaining games and both seem very winnable.

No denying that Franklin is a good coach imo.

Don't really see how any of that applies to Butch though.
 
#6,408
#6,408
Vols4us said:
Todays line-up after review of the past two pages:

1) Jalen's mom - :good!::good!::good!: Young people are young people - stuff happens.

2) 6' 4" and 240 lbs. does give Hurd options in the NFL at TE and WR with his speed once he is healthy again. Surprised a couple knowledgeable guys on here have not watched the guy down the road that is an All-Pro that plays with the Titans that is 6' 2" and 248 lbs. by the name of Delanie Walker. Or he could stay around 230 or so and be like Mike Evans and destroy d-backs. Unless you were perfectly developed mentally and physically at the same age, none have the right to throw stones. The best developers of talent do not necessarily coach at UT.

3) If Butch had to "assist" Z last season with his job, he should "assist" Debored with his until the end of the season. Then part as personal friends after the last game. Call the plays yourself, Butch.

4) There is still a huge gap in how UT fans view the program. To some, winning more than losing consistently is acceptable. For others, a return to elite status for good is demanded. I really don't care if the team finishes anything short of first in the division anymore. Anything less is not a good season to me since Butch has spent 4 seasons building and developing a roster.

5) Totally agree with others on LB recruitment. Two starters go down and meh results.

5) Martin should have been allowed to play through his poor play when the staff chose to remove the best natural option at CB from the roster and make him a little used slot. Martin is physically gifted and talented, he just has not perfected technique for whatever reasons. Guess what, neither have the ones that replaced him that are far less talented and aggressive. Pull him out for a quarter here and there to coach him up, but always go with the best you have.

6) Evan. Offense. Today. Especially now that Hurd is gone.

7) Need big tough DT's.

8) Dobbs. With no threat of losing the job in his senior season, how has it turned out? Continued regression and bad decision making. Turnovers beyond imagination. Butch always says he is a competition guy at every position. Right. Not buying. Great as a person. Bright future outside of football. Messed up as a football player. It happens.

9) Trey Smith or equivalent for the O-line. Elite CB's and LB's are a must have. Love the Ignont commitment.

10) C'mon Butch. Throw the dang ball to JJ. A dozen targets a game. Add in at least a half dozen to Malone and several to Wolf. JJ beats double and triple teams. Throw the ball to JJ. Remember the slant pass like we have said on here for 4 seasons. We know it is in your playbook, you and Debored just forget to call it at times.

Have a good day RF. Seriously.
Click to expand...

I don't think CJ is the one throwing the ball. It could be those dirt diggers Dobbs threw last week was meant for JJ. lol
 
#6,411
#6,411
omghulkhands said:
Just a friendly reminder that James Franklin had back to back 9-4 years


...at Vanderbilt

And we like to call Franklin a fraud on this board, but what does that make Butch?
Click to expand...

Franklin can EAD. I'll concede that he's likely a decent HC and arguably one of the best that Vanderbilt has had but, it's not like that bar was set very high...

His record versus ranked opponents was NIL, IIRC. He was more opportunistic than good and, before beating OSU a couple of weeks ago, PSU fans were anything but happy. His tenure in the SEC was during the worst of times for UT and mediocre times, at best, for UGA and Florida.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#6,413
#6,413
Vols4us said:
Todays line-up after review of the past two pages:

1) Jalen's mom - :good!::good!::good!: Young people are young people - stuff happens.

2) 6' 4" and 240 lbs. does give Hurd options in the NFL at TE and WR with his speed once he is healthy again. Surprised a couple knowledgeable guys on here have not watched the guy down the road that is an All-Pro that plays with the Titans that is 6' 2" and 248 lbs. by the name of Delanie Walker. Or he could stay around 230 or so and be like Mike Evans and destroy d-backs. Unless you were perfectly developed mentally and physically at the same age, none have the right to throw stones. The best developers of talent do not necessarily coach at UT.

3) If Butch had to "assist" Z last season with his job, he should "assist" Debored with his until the end of the season. Then part as personal friends after the last game. Call the plays yourself, Butch.

4) There is still a huge gap in how UT fans view the program. To some, winning more than losing consistently is acceptable. For others, a return to elite status for good is demanded. I really don't care if the team finishes anything short of first in the division anymore. Anything less is not a good season to me since Butch has spent 4 seasons building and developing a roster.

5) Totally agree with others on LB recruitment. Two starters go down and meh results.

5) Martin should have been allowed to play through his poor play when the staff chose to remove the best natural option at CB from the roster and make him a little used slot. Martin is physically gifted and talented, he just has not perfected technique for whatever reasons. Guess what, neither have the ones that replaced him that are far less talented and aggressive. Pull him out for a quarter here and there to coach him up, but always go with the best you have.

6) Evan. Offense. Today. Especially now that Hurd is gone.

7) Need big tough DT's.

8) Dobbs. With no threat of losing the job in his senior season, how has it turned out? Continued regression and bad decision making. Turnovers beyond imagination. Butch always says he is a competition guy at every position. Right. Not buying. Great as a person. Bright future outside of football. Messed up as a football player. It happens.

9) Trey Smith or equivalent for the O-line. Elite CB's and LB's are a must have. Love the Ignont commitment.

10) C'mon Butch. Throw the dang ball to JJ. A dozen targets a game. Add in at least a half dozen to Malone and several to Wolf. JJ beats double and triple teams. Throw the ball to JJ. Remember the slant pass like we have said on here for 4 seasons. We know it is in your playbook, you and Debored just forget to call it at times.

Have a good day RF. Seriously.
Click to expand...

I love how people can assume Hurd can all of a sudden become one of the NFL's Top 5 WRs. Such a lame comparison. Do you even know how hard it is to become a legitimate WR1 in the NFL much less a Top 5 talent?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#6,414
#6,414
Ok I going to go vote early. Please try not to let everything go to pot in here before I get back, O K? I am so tried of carrying RF on my back. Be back soon! GO VOLS!
 
#6,416
#6,416
Question on 247:

John do you think maybe Butch is having an adjustment dealing with the 4/5 star aths, that are serious about their NFL future and need more TLC and are more me 1st.

I firmly believe while winning champs at CM & Cinn. he dealt with a 2/3 star kid that needed to be coached up but were much more of a team first ath.

Now he is having to coach/motivate/keep happy, a large roster of 4/5 stars to truly compete in the SEC.

I'm not sure he works as well with the higher level ath it takes to win in the SEC, what are your thoughts here?
Click to expand...

John Brice's response:

Have said this before and absolutely believe it to be the case. Egos for all of us develop at different ages & levels. SEC recruits tend to be sooner than later. Dylan Wiesman is an example in the program but even he struggled with his role last preseason.

I've said it before: let's say a prep football coach is ripping through this state in 1A, dominating and all take notice. That doesn't mean he's a great fit at MBA or Ensworth etc, and it doesn't mean he's any less of a coach.
Click to expand...

- 247
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#6,417
#6,417
utvols88 said:
Here's the thing though, let's say there is a QB coach. That means a coach is pulled from elsewhere. Which one are you firing and won't cause the fanbase to complain about just as much?

OL? Lord if we had this same ol and no coach, the narrative is the same with an OL coach.

TE? same as OL.

WR? That might make a lot of people happy lol

RB? Nah. G has done a good job.

Defensive staff probably won't change. Now what?

I'm not saying you are wrong or anything like that. It's just seems harder to do than what most give it credit for.
Click to expand...

The problem is that we have 2 OL coaches, because when Butch hired his OC 2 years ago (who is an OL coach), he should have fired his current OL coach and hired a QB coach. He didn't and that's where we are now.
 
#6,418
#6,418
OGbabyaviVol said:
The problem is that we have 2 OL coaches, because when Butch hired his OC 2 years ago (who is an OL coach), he should have fired his current OL coach and hired a QB coach. He didn't and that's where we are now.
Click to expand...

That's really the best opening I see on the staff. All others are kind of tough to drop.

But with that said, if the OL was the same as it is now with a QB coach instead, do you think the conversation is about an OL coach?
 
#6,420
#6,420
LynxVol said:
Question on 247:



John Brice's response:



- 247
Click to expand...

This is a point that's been made lately that I think is true. The type of kids he'd been coaching at his first two gigs (and to a much lesser extent, a lot of the guys he had his first two seasons here...the older Dooley left overs at least) were the type of guys who were just happy to be playing D1 football and were willing to take a backseat for 3-4 years.

To get on top of the SEC, you've gotta bring in guys who want to get their names out there and get to the league. Very different expectations for many elite prospects compared to your averag MAC level recruit.
 
#6,421
#6,421
utvols88 said:
Here's the thing though, let's say there is a QB coach. That means a coach is pulled from elsewhere. Which one are you firing and won't cause the fanbase to complain about just as much?

OL? Lord if we had this same ol and no coach, the narrative is the same with an OL coach.

TE? same as OL.

WR? That might make a lot of people happy lol

RB? Nah. G has done a good job.

Defensive staff probably won't change. Now what?

I'm not saying you are wrong or anything like that. It's just seems harder to do than what most give it credit for.
Click to expand...

Typically your OC coaches a position too. So no, we don't need to remove a coach, we needed to hire an OC good enough to coach QB
 
#6,422
#6,422
Darth_Shiveman said:
This is a point that's been made lately that I think is true. The type of kids he'd been coaching at his first two gigs (and to a much lesser extent, a lot of the guys he had his first two seasons here...the older Dooley left overs at least) were the type of guys who were just happy to be playing D1 football and were willing to take a backseat for 3-4 years.

To get on top of the SEC, you've gotta bring in guys who want to get their names out there and get to the league. Very different expectations for many elite prospects compared to your averag MAC level recruit.
Click to expand...

I'm not that big of a supporter of this narrative. Moreover, many of the coaches on staff have been around elite talent at different points in their career.

I also think this post from Brice needs to be posted in response to some flack he received for the article he wrote on program attrition and the current state of the program:

My opinion is the last 72 hours have left Tennessee in a precarious, unexpected position. 12 players from a single class, especially a class the coach terms his first full one and the foundation class, is massive attrition. Wharton would have helped this team, especially as injuries have mounted. Believe it is at least 24 through 2015, but I was just counting the full timeframe.

My track record is of being fair; the article you disagree with states plainly the Vols' program is better in myriad areas.

But attrition, a loss that's imo the worst of Jones' time here, especially coupled with the stakes, and this season is headed toward significant disappointment. I also said it isn't inevitable. And I've said 50/50 Vols still reach ATL. But if they do and lose, there's a monumental gap between 10-3 and 9-4. From perception, recruiting and postseason destination.
Click to expand...

- 247
 
#6,423
#6,423
It's sad we have 2 OL coaches, returned basically everyone, have talent, and have an oline that has struggled so much this year
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#6,424
#6,424
The Breakerboy said:
Wonder why we play so much off coverage.... Why give a young QB easy throws?
Click to expand...
I didn't hear it but someone was telling me Doug Matthews was saying we are playing too much press man. I was like when are we playing press?? Most of what I see is CBs 7 yards deep and bailing out as soon as the ball is snapped.

With that said, I do think the loss was on the QB and OC/HC more than anything.
 
#6,425
#6,425
Vols4us said:
Todays line-up after review of the past two pages:

1) Jalen's mom - :good!::good!::good!: Young people are young people - stuff happens.

2) 6' 4" and 240 lbs. does give Hurd options in the NFL at TE and WR with his speed once he is healthy again. Surprised a couple knowledgeable guys on here have not watched the guy down the road that is an All-Pro that plays with the Titans that is 6' 2" and 248 lbs. by the name of Delanie Walker. Or he could stay around 230 or so and be like Mike Evans and destroy d-backs. Unless you were perfectly developed mentally and physically at the same age, none have the right to throw stones. The best developers of talent do not necessarily coach at UT.

3) If Butch had to "assist" Z last season with his job, he should "assist" Debored with his until the end of the season. Then part as personal friends after the last game. Call the plays yourself, Butch.

4) There is still a huge gap in how UT fans view the program. To some, winning more than losing consistently is acceptable. For others, a return to elite status for good is demanded. I really don't care if the team finishes anything short of first in the division anymore. Anything less is not a good season to me since Butch has spent 4 seasons building and developing a roster.

5) Totally agree with others on LB recruitment. Two starters go down and meh results.

5) Martin should have been allowed to play through his poor play when the staff chose to remove the best natural option at CB from the roster and make him a little used slot. Martin is physically gifted and talented, he just has not perfected technique for whatever reasons. Guess what, neither have the ones that replaced him that are far less talented and aggressive. Pull him out for a quarter here and there to coach him up, but always go with the best you have.

6) Evan. Offense. Today. Especially now that Hurd is gone.

7) Need big tough DT's.

8) Dobbs. With no threat of losing the job in his senior season, how has it turned out? Continued regression and bad decision making. Turnovers beyond imagination. Butch always says he is a competition guy at every position. Right. Not buying. Great as a person. Bright future outside of football. Messed up as a football player. It happens.

9) Trey Smith or equivalent for the O-line. Elite CB's and LB's are a must have. Love the Ignont commitment.

10) C'mon Butch. Throw the dang ball to JJ. A dozen targets a game. Add in at least a half dozen to Malone and several to Wolf. JJ beats double and triple teams. Throw the ball to JJ. Remember the slant pass like we have said on here for 4 seasons. We know it is in your playbook, you and Debored just forget to call it at times.

Have a good day RF. Seriously.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this except number 5. When JRM went out, we also lost his back ups. It shouldn't surprise us that 4th and 5th string backers are struggling. However, at MLB is is shocking that Jumper is the best option. I do believe that's Bituki will be good tho
 
New posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Advertisement





Back
Top