Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXIX

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#4,976
#4,976
Nashvegas31 said:
He hasn't been normal all year in decision making and ball control. Something isn't right. There are several guys that just don't seem into it this year
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Ball control has always been bad. He has taken more chances with throws but has many more big plays because of it. The INTs don't bother me really.
 
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#4,977
#4,977
Nashvegas31 said:
There is no tweaking with this stubborn head coach. He is full of crap and contradicts himself all the time. One day he will tell you they fit scheme to players and next will say its plays not players
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Exactly.

It's on Butch. He either figures this out and changes or he WILL go down with the ship.
 
#4,980
#4,980
McGeesPub said:
The problem is, it'll be taking on water a long time before it actually sinks.

We are stuck with him for awhile.
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Or maybe we could be a little positive and hope he gets it right

The man has done a TON of good so far. Everyone has things to work out, and now is his time

I'll support him to do it right
 
#4,982
#4,982
Let's be honest about Dobbs though, last year was an aberration for him. He's always thrown a lot of risky balls and INTs. His TD:INT ratio was 2:6 as a freshman and 9:6 as a sophomore. Last year he had at leat 5-6 sure INTs dropped by defenders, so his 15:5 final statline came out looking better than it should have.

What he has almost always done well for us and what the staff has frustratingly been unwilling to take advantage of at times is his running. The coaches continue to try and pigeonhole him instead of accepting what he is and scheming around it.

Better offensive coaches like Tom Herman or Gus Malzahn (not saying Malzahn is great, but he's a better offensive mind than Butch and Debord, for sure) would have schemed around Dobbs' legs and run him 20-25 times a game. Butch just doesn't seem to believe in deviating from his scheme though.
 
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#4,983
#4,983
nicksjuzunk said:
Or maybe we could be a little positive and hope he gets it right

The man has done a TON of good so far. Everyone has things to work out, and now is his time

I'll support him to do it right
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Not trying to be a smarta** (ok, maybe I am just a little), but outside of recruiting what has Butch done that should inspire faith in him moving forward?

He's lost at least one game he should have won ever season (2013, Vandy: 2014, UF: 2015: OU, UF, Arky 2016: USCe and arguably A&M), he's done a poor job of managing the talent he's brought in, and he's shown a startling unwillingness to adapt his scheme to his personnel and/or opponents.


I get that he shouldn't be fired after this season unless the team completely implodes. I understand that in fairness he probably deserves another season after 2017 if he can win 8-9 games. But at this point it's painfully obvious that he's not gonna get UT to Atlanta any time soon no matter how much talent he has to work with.


I just think it sucks that, as fans, we pretty much know how Butch's future will play out and will have to sit around an endure it all for another 2 years or so anyway.
 
#4,986
#4,986
So, just to get this straight.

Year 1: 5-7
Year 2: 7-5
Year 3: 9-3
Year 4: 5-3
First win in a decade over FL. Win over division rival UGA
Losses to a single loss (AL) A&M team, when player execution with turnovers was clearly the issue.
Loss to Bama
Loss to USCe, which was a bad loss

and everyone is ready to fire Butch and enter into the coaching foray with Texas, LSU, likely Oregon, Notre Dame and more?

Any coach would look at that above and lol, as he took any other job under the sun.

It's a bad loss, and there are issues to correct. Sadly, it looks like most of you have taken the stance of choosing to be miserable and hoping for failure so "the inevitable" comes sooner, rather than later.

You may certainly prove to be right in the end, but to say this is the demise of Butch Jones is laughably premature.
 
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#4,987
#4,987
The only way I'm ok with butch(yes I know he will be here regardless) is if he makes MAJOR changes on offense. If he doesn't, 2017 will be a disaster. Still willing to give the defense a pass because injuries.
 
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#4,988
#4,988
I'm done for a while, fellas.

We all want the same thing, but the truth is, none of us know the best way to get it. We've just got different opinions based on the same facts and endless speculation.

I'll browse, because I want to know what's going on in the program, but probably post less for a while.
 
#4,989
#4,989
Pepe_Silvia said:
Yep the handwriting is on the wall. Butch, like Dooley, will have his supporters to the bitter end though.
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Those excuses get old as crap. He's had sunshine pumpers throw every excuse in the book for every one of his questionable losses. All the way down to Vanderbilt year 1.
 
#4,990
#4,990
It's more than just the last 3 losses though. If our guys had played good, disciplined football and just come up short, most of us would probably be fine. It's really a combination of multiple things that has pretty much convinced me he won't ever get it done. I think it's a combination of the following things:

  • Discipline has been extremely poor this season
  • Offensive production (statistically and on the OL) is comparable to 2013 and 2014 despite a huge increase in talent and experience
  • Has lost at least one game each year that he should have won (this trend has gotten worse the more his teams have had to play for)
  • Hasn't taken advantage of the East being the weakest it's been in decades at all
  • Mismanagement of some of the most naturally talented guys he's brought in (North, Preston, Hurd)
  • Lack of player expected player progression compared to recruiting ranking of a number of players
  • Stubborn unwillingness to adapt offensively that has hurt the team every year he's been here in one way or another
  • Recruiting has fallen off


And it's all made more frustrating because the guy won't even come out and give an honest interview about the things we're seeing on the field. Not saying he has to divulge any team secrets or anything, but his robotic coach speak is really grating.

I can't think of a single human moment I've seen from Butch in his 4 seasons here thus far. It's been straight up coach speak and sales mode since day one. If you're winning games, you can get away with that. If you're not doing so well or are underperforming, people will start to resent you for it.
 
#4,991
#4,991
Catbone said:
The only way I'm ok with butch(yes I know he will be here regardless) is if he makes MAJOR changes on offense. If he doesn't, 2017 will be a disaster. Still willing to give the defense a pass because injuries.
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This is pretty much where I'm at.

The sad thing to me is that I think there is a lot Butch has done well since he got here. But I think his pride and unwillingness to adapt have hamstrung this team's potential in a lot of ways too.

As things stand, I think Butch is an ok head coach. If he was willing to bring in new blood and delegate a bit more, I think he could be a good HC. But it's becoming more and more clear that he just doesn't have that in him to be a really good or a great HC.
 
#4,993
#4,993
nicksjuzunk said:
So, just to get this straight.

Year 1: 5-7
Year 2: 7-5
Year 3: 9-3
Year 4: 5-3
First win in a decade over FL. Win over division rival UGA
Losses to a single loss (AL) A&M team, when player execution with turnovers was clearly the issue.
Loss to Bama
Loss to USCe, which was a bad loss

and everyone is ready to fire Butch and enter into the coaching foray with Texas, LSU, likely Oregon, Notre Dame and more?

Any coach would look at that above and lol, as he took any other job under the sun.

It's a bad loss, and there are issues to correct. Sadly, it looks like most of you have taken the stance of choosing to be miserable and hoping for failure so "the inevitable" comes sooner, rather than later.

You may certainly prove to be right in the end, but to say this is the demise of Butch Jones is laughably premature.
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This post will be lost in the sea of despair that is this thread currently...but you're spot on.
 
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#4,994
#4,994
I've said this before... Butch's name was on the rise, he had the goodwill of Tennessee fans and the respect of the national media. He had an opportunity to hire any OC he wanted. He let the hype get to him and he went out and hired an incompetent fool that hasn't coached football in years to run his offense... That is the Dumb*** move that sealed his fate.

2017 for Butch is exactly like Dooley's last year... It's a sinking ship.
 
#4,995
#4,995
BoseefusTheVol said:
I've said this before... Butch's name was on the rise, he had the goodwill of Tennessee fans and the respect of the national media. He had an opportunity to hire any OC he wanted. He let the hype get to him and he went out and hired an incompetent fool that hasn't coached football in years to run his offense... That is the Dumb*** move that sealed his fate.

2017 for Butch is exactly like Dooley's last year... It's a sinking ship.
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I don't think he's as bad as Dooley. I just see him as an 8-9 win coach. Unless things spiral wildly out of control (which I don't think will happen), I don't see 2017 being the debacle that 2012 was for Dooley.

I still think Shoop is a good DC too. Now where near Sunseri level.
 
#4,996
#4,996
OGbabyaviVol said:
Hmm...might be on to something with the Neuheisel comment.
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I was blasted for bringing that to this forum as well. I had no proof other than what Rick N said. But in retrospect he does look to be onto something. Or maybe he was just on something and we just are a bad team.
 
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#4,997
#4,997
Also, does anybody know exactly what the timeline will be for our new AD? I know they said Hart will be here until June, but we're expected to find our new guy much earlier than that.

Are we really gonna have the new guy wait to take over until next summer?
 
#4,999
#4,999
Darth_Shiveman said:
Also, does anybody know exactly what the timeline will be for our new AD? I know they said Hart will be here until June, but we're expected to find our new guy much earlier than that.

Are we really gonna have the new guy wait to take over until next summer?
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Sure seems that way. Which is why Butch won't be fired after the epic failure that is 2016.

2017 will be his last chance to prove himself to his new AD.

I just hope that CBJ can find a great OC knowing that he will be here to essentially save Butch's job. Is there a great one out there willing to take that risk?
 
#5,000
#5,000
BoseefusTheVol said:
Sure seems that way. Which is why Butch won't be fired after the epic failure that is 2016.

2017 will be his last chance to prove himself to his new AD.

I just hope that CBJ can find a great OC knowing that he will be here to essentially save Butch's job. Is there a great one out there willing to take that risk?
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I'll let the rest of the season play out before I call it an epic failure. A 9-3 season isn't terrible, especially considering the injuries.

To me it's just indicative of Butch having a lower ceiling than we should settle for.
 
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