Factor Military Duty into Criticism

#2
#2
Prior military service, in no way, gives anyone more or less right to the freedom to speak their mind. Also, it does not, in any way, make those spoken thoughts "untouchable" by critics.

The man may have once been patriotic. He is not now, nor has he been as long as he has been spouting his 'down with America'/'American citizens deserved to be killed by the thousands' garbage.
 
#3
#3
therealUT said:
Prior military service, in no way, gives anyone more or less right to the freedom to speak their mind. Also, it does not, in any way, make those spoken thoughts "untouchable" by critics.

The man may have once been patriotic. He is not now, nor has he been as long as he has been spouting his 'down with America'/'American citizens deserved to be killed by the thousands' garbage.
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Agreed Trut..Garbage sums it up. Gee, why does the name George Soros come to mind when I say garbage. hrrmmm..
 
#4
#4
therealUT said:
Prior military service, in no way, gives anyone more or less right to the freedom to speak their mind. Also, it does not, in any way, make those spoken thoughts "untouchable" by critics.

The man may have once been patriotic. He is not now, nor has he been as long as he has been spouting his 'down with America'/'American citizens deserved to be killed by the thousands' garbage.
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Who says he has (or should) more freedoms than others? And who says those spoken thoughts should be "untouchable" by critics? The article even criticizes what he has said - did you not read it?

The article simply points out that those who want to burn him at the stakes have done less to protect our rights than he has. And a lot of those blowhards (like Rush and O'Reilly) say some pretty inflammatory "garbage" themselves.
 
#6
#6
Trut, in all your military experience, have you not once said something that might be construed as anti-government?
 
#7
#7
MontereyVol said:
Trut, in all your military experience, have you not once said something that might be construed as anti-government?
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I say plenty of things about our government. However, none of them have ever been in the same ballpark as:
“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people. damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”
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#8
#8
Being in the military is no cleanse all for a person's point of views. I believe Tim McVeigh was in the military. Sick of these attempts of justifying that idiot's comments.
 
#9
#9
I am not advocating being in the military justifies anything. I just find it funny all these people who were never in the military acting like they have experienced the same things and deserve some recognition as such
 
#10
#10
allvol123 said:
Being in the military is no cleanse all for a person's point of views. I believe Tim McVeigh was in the military. Sick of these attempts of justifying that idiot's comments.
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.

will comment on the rest of this, but first:

come on man - are you seriously comparing Tim McVeigh blowing up a building and killing hundreds of innocent people to a sermon?
 
#11
#11
TennNC said:
.

will comment on the rest of this, but first:

come on man - are you seriously comparing Tim McVeigh blowing up a building and killing hundreds of innocent people to a sermon?
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No I am not comparing the two. Just saying being in the military does not necessarily tell me anything about a person. The military has their share of rapists, molesters, thieves...what have you...having served in the military does not tell me anything about a person. On the other hand, delivering a sermon...should tell me a lot about a person..or what is contained in the sermon should.
 
#12
#12
therealUT said:
I say plenty of things about our government. However, none of them have ever been in the same ballpark as:
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Depends on your outlook, I guess?

I do have to agree with you that what he said was wrong. My question is does he actually believe this drivil or is he is playing to the crowd, which makes it worse in my opinion.
 
#13
#13
Allvol123, who's justifying a single comment he's made? Nobody's justifying it. Not Obama, not the authors of the article I linked here, not me. Tell me where you're hearing it, b/c I'm not.

Nobody said being in the military was a cleanse all - we don't have to go to the military to enjoy our rights, because people like Rev. Wright (and many on here) do that for us.

Criticize his words, criticize his sermons, even criticize his actions. But also consider that he gave up 6 years to serve the country when our "leaders" were dodging draft after draft. Now THAT's something really worth criticizing.
 
#14
#14
allvol123 said:
No I am not comparing the two. Just saying being in the military does not necessarily tell me anything about a person. The military has their share of rapists, molesters, thieves...what have you...having served in the military does not tell me anything about a person. On the other hand, delivering a sermon...should tell me a lot about a person..or what is contained in the sermon should.
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You make it sound like there is a lot in the ranks? You do know it is statistically less than the population stats
 
#15
#15
Given the size of membership his church has..I'd say plenty of people see his comments as justifiable.
 
#16
#16
MontereyVol said:
You make it sound like there is a lot in the ranks? You do know it is statistically less than the population stats
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I am sure it is. Just saying, being in the military tells me nothing about an individual. I might can assume some things...but it really tells me nothing for a fact.
 
#17
#17
Your right, but dodging service or acting like you have the same experience as someone who has served should tell you something of ones character as well
 
#19
#19
allvol123 said:
having served in the military does not tell me anything about a person.
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Well, it tells me they were willing to risk losing their lives for their country, which I would consider a patriotic act.

And people who dodge a draft tells me they weren't willing to give their life for their country, which I would consider a bit less patriotic.

And just so we're both straight about this - I agree that Rev. Wright made idiotic comments and denounce what he has said, and I also think he should have the right to say it as loud and as many times as he wants.

So what do we agree on and what do we disagree on?
 
#20
#20
allvol123 said:
Given the size of membership his church has..I'd say plenty of people see his comments as justifiable.
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Who has publicly spoken since this flap and defended Wright's statements? More important, who in Obama's camp has justified them?

Also, you choose to live in the united states, correct? And maybe you even voted for George W. Bush for president. So does that mean you agree with everything that comes out of his mouth?
 
#22
#22
TennNC said:
Who has publicly spoken since this flap and defended Wright's statements? More important, who in Obama's camp has justified them?

Also, you choose to live in the united states, correct? And maybe you even voted for George W. Bush for president. So does that mean you agree with everything that comes out of his mouth?
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1st point - No one with a brain from Obama's camp is going to justify the statements. He has attended the church for 20 years...I can't dismiss the idea of him not buying into them. I'll add as to "who is defending these statements"...this article is the type of thing that is trying to. Perhaps not defend them as much as make people belive this guy really didn't mean them or make people see that he really is a "swell" guy.

2nd point - That is not a good question in my opinion. The idea of framing this into the - "well you agree with everything this guy says". Does not work. I had 2 real choices for president. Obama has countless choices for a spiritual adviser.
 
#24
#24
allvol123 said:
1st point - No one with a brain from Obama's camp is going to justify the statements. He has attended the church for 20 years...I can't dismiss the idea of him not buying into them. I'll add as to "who is defending these statements"...this article is the type of thing that is trying to. Perhaps not defend them as much as make people belive this guy really didn't mean them or make people see that he really is a "swell" guy.
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1) Because they don't agree with them. And if you assume Obama agrees with the statements even after publicly denouncing them multiple times, then I frankly don't know what to say.

2) Maybe it's just me, but when the article states, "Some of Wright's comments are inexcusable and inappropriate and should be condemned," I take that to mean the authors are actually condemning the statements, not defending them.

Once again, the article is saying that Wright's comments should be condemned, and that maybe we should also consider what else he has done before throwing him on the cross. And maybe we should consider what else others haven't done, starting with the man sitting in the Oval office.
 
#25
#25
TennNC said:
1) Because they don't agree with them. And if you assume Obama agrees with the statements even after publicly denouncing them multiple times, then I frankly don't know what to say.

2) Maybe it's just me, but when the article states, "Some of Wright's comments are inexcusable and inappropriate and should be condemned," I take that to mean the authors are actually condemning the statements, not defending them.

Once again, the article is saying that Wright's comments should be condemned, and that maybe we should also consider what else he has done before throwing him on the cross. And maybe we should consider what else others haven't done, starting with the man sitting in the Oval office.
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1) not necessarily because they don't believe them...but certainly if they did, they would refrain simply due to political suicide. I am not assuming anything. Just REALLY REALLY question why anyone would make this guy their spiritual adviser. I have NEVER witnessed this type of garbage in a church. Me disagreeing with my pastor's intrepretations is vastly different than me hanging onto my bigot pastor.

2) I am not throwing Wright on the cross. He is not running for president...he can be a piece of crap all he wants. I am more concerned with the man that has followed his teachings for 20 years and wants to sit in the Oval office.
 
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