Ukraine II: The Fight Against Russian Aggression

#1,852
#1,852
Pacer92 said:
So, by your thinking that Russia is still the USSR, then Germany is still the Third Reich...right?

Russia is a democratic nation. Communism is gone. Yes, every country that has a bad history has to own it. The USSR is part of their history like US slavery, Germany's Nazism or South African apartheid. Those past don't define those countries today...

I don't get what you're trying to say? Is Russia the one spreading the anti Russian rhetoric? Is Russia the one that is influencing regime changes throughout the globe? Is Russia the one that is having military manuevers on the US border? Is Russia the one staging coups in democratically elected countries? Is Russia the one forcing their allies to spend 2% of their GDP on defense?
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we aren't forcing anyone to spend 2%. if you don't count us only 4 NATO nations spend 2%; thats 5 of 28. hardly "forcing" and like the name suggests its an alliance of self choice. I doubt NATO fights a war to keep a member in who wants out unlike the USSR.

and I agree that the nation has to accept all its dirty laundry, which is why I have been balking against your talk that Russia isn't the USSR. and Germany has definitely not forgot what they as the Third Reich.

no it would be odd if Russia was spreading anti-Russian propaganda. especially since Putin has imprisoned and kicked out all the people speaking out. Putin not the USSR. Putin also getting involved in conflicts on his border. you had admitted that Russia is at least giving the DNR & LNR equipment, and thats Russia not the USSR. Then you have the Georgian war, and the constant mess of Chechnya (Russia nor Putin will ever get to hold any moral high ground as long as they are tied to Chechnya). all those things were Russian doing, not the USSR; its sounds like stuff the USSR did, but its happening today. Russia isn't innocent here, not saying we are either; but Russia is too dirty to ever be a victim.

and lets not forget the Crimean land grab, and voting at gunpoint, why did Russia need it? When they were at their weakest NATO did jack to them, so what is Russia protecting itself from? Russia isn't doing things to protect itself its doing things so it can start expanding its own realm of influence. if anything you should be complaining that Russia is trying to become like your evil America.
 
#1,853
#1,853
Rasputin_Vol said:
I haven't seen any evidence of what you are saying, but lets assume you are correct. Would you blame them for wanting to distance themselves from that dark era? Doesn't that go against this notion that we are still fighting the communist bear in Eurasia, yet they seem to be distancing themselves from their communist past?
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Rasputin_Vol said:
I don't understand why these people can't see that the USSR died when Yeltsin resigned. It was a failed system that cost many Russians their lives.
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Pacer92 said:
Americans have been conditioned thru false media, that intentionally manipulates..

Everybody has heard the old sayings about controlling the mind, masses, etc...

Conditioned to never look outside of the program....

You'd think with all the alternatives out there today, people would be enlightened more often...
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Pacer92 said:
Montenegro is just a small percentage of this, but unlike Liechtenstein, it has a history involving Russia.

Can't claim it's past before communism? That ridiculous. The same blood lines that ruled Great Britain during WW1 ruled the Russian Empire...they have a magnificent history beyond communism...

Russia today is not the USSR. They are not the ones expanding their military empire(NATO)...as did the Soviet Union for over 70 yrs...

They just refuse to capitulate to modern day US hegemony...
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Rasputin_Vol said:
I don't understand why most people cannot see this.
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seems like the two of you have been denying the past pretty darn hard here in this thread.
 
#1,854
#1,854
LouderVol said:
we aren't forcing anyone to spend 2%. if you don't count us only 4 NATO nations spend 2%; thats 5 of 28. hardly "forcing" and like the name suggests its an alliance of self choice. I doubt NATO fights a war to keep a member in who wants out unlike the USSR.

and I agree that the nation has to accept all its dirty laundry, which is why I have been balking against your talk that Russia isn't the USSR. and Germany has definitely not forgot what they as the Third Reich.

no it would be odd if Russia was spreading anti-Russian propaganda. especially since Putin has imprisoned and kicked out all the people speaking out. Putin not the USSR. Putin also getting involved in conflicts on his border. you had admitted that Russia is at least giving the DNR & LNR equipment, and thats Russia not the USSR. Then you have the Georgian war, and the constant mess of Chechnya (Russia nor Putin will ever get to hold any moral high ground as long as they are tied to Chechnya). all those things were Russian doing, not the USSR; its sounds like stuff the USSR did, but its happening today. Russia isn't innocent here, not saying we are either; but Russia is too dirty to ever be a victim.

and lets not forget the Crimean land grab, and voting at gunpoint, why did Russia need it? When they were at their weakest NATO did jack to them, so what is Russia protecting itself from? Russia isn't doing things to protect itself its doing things so it can start expanding its own realm of influence. if anything you should be complaining that Russia is trying to become like your evil America.
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Russia is protecting itself. Multiple efforts have been made to take over this land throughout history...this is just the most recent.
 
#1,856
#1,856
Pacer92 said:
So, by your thinking that Russia is still the USSR, then Germany is still the Third Reich...right?

Russia is a democratic nation. Communism is gone. Yes, every country that has a bad history has to own it. The USSR is part of their history like US slavery, Germany's Nazism or South African apartheid. Those past don't define those countries today...

I don't get what you're trying to say? Is Russia the one spreading the anti Russian rhetoric? Is Russia the one that is influencing regime changes throughout the globe? Is Russia the one that is having military manuevers on the US border? Is Russia the one staging coups in democratically elected countries? Is Russia the one forcing their allies to spend 2% of their GDP on defense?
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If you think Russia is a democratic country I got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
 
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#1,857
#1,857
carlos86 said:
I believe this too. But I believe if Russia were to move on Kiev NATO would move in under a UN mandate. It would be wise for Russia not to move pass the Dnieper River or approach Kiev in anyway. A move toward Kiev would be seen by Poland as a threat to them.
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I think a push towards the Dnieper would warrant a response by the West. It puts Kiev right into the firing line and that can't happen.
 
#1,861
#1,861
Pacer92 said:
So, by your thinking that Russia is still the USSR, then Germany is still the Third Reich...right?
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He's not claiming that contemporary Russia is still the USSR. He's claiming that the USSR was Russia. There's a difference there.

I don't get what you're trying to say? Is Russia the one spreading the anti Russian rhetoric?
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No, Russia loves Russia; however, the US is halfheartedly dedicated to anti-Kremlin rhetoric.

Is Russia the one that is influencing regime changes throughout the globe?
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Russia doesn't have that kind of reach, although it is highly involved in influencing the US's presidential election this go-around.

Is Russia the one that is having military manuevers on the US border?
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No, because neither Canada nor Mexico give a damn about Russia. Each country has normal relations with the US and doesn't feel threatened as a result.

Is Russia the one staging coups in democratically elected countries?
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Saying Russia is "the one" is unfair, because it implies that it is the only one. But, yes, Russia stages coups and regime changes. Kyrgyzstan was the Kremlin's latest outright regime change. Ukraine, in a bizarre twist, was a Russian anti-coup, because it was a popular revolt by the Ukrainian people against centuries of Russian control of Ukrainian domestic affairs.

Is Russia the one forcing their allies to spend 2% of their GDP on defense?
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Russia doesn't have any allies worth 2% of GDP. Nor is the US forcing its allies to spend 2% of their GDP on defense.
 
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#1,863
#1,863
Pacer92 said:
Only former Putin colleagues end up mysteriously and conveniently dead...
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Are you parrotting the Kremlin puppet Assange line in order to insinuate that that DNC staffer was killed by the Clintons because he was behind the leak? And this in some sort of bizarre attempt to rationalize all the Kremlin murders for which we actually have evidence?

Did you really just go there? I hope you didn't just go there.

You're pretty wacky at times, but this is Trump territory wacky. Some would even say, "Kremlinesque."
 
#1,865
#1,865
Velo Vol said:
LOL

Secret File Confirms Trump Claim: Obama, Hillary 'Founded ISIS' to Oust Assad
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Throughout this whole Ukrainian ordeal, Russia's security posturing and intelligence maneuvering have largely been more amusing than "deadly serious." Much about it has given me a good chuckle, minus the gravity of both the situation on the ground in the Donbass and of the numerous real whistleblowers (I'm looking at you, Ed) who have lost their lives at the hands of the Putin regime.

But when you start trying to mess with my country by getting an autocratic Putin lapdog like Trump elected as my leader, knowing full well what he'll do to us, you're on the fightin' side of me, as Merle Haggard would say.
 
#1,866
#1,866
volprof said:
But when you start trying to mess with my country by getting an autocratic Putin lapdog like Trump elected as my leader, knowing full well what he'll do to us, you're on the fightin' side of me, as Merle Haggard would say.
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It's surreal.
 
#1,867
#1,867
Pacer92 said:
Russia is protecting itself. Multiple efforts have been made to take over this land throughout history...this is just the most recent.
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how have we tried to take Russian land? not sure how boxing them at worst and ignoring them at best is trying to take their land. seems like we want them to stay only in their land. its only whenever they start crossing into other people's land that we care. Crimea and E. Ukraine etc.
 
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#1,868
#1,868
Cp3VvGUXYAAYGeW.jpg:large
 
#1,872
#1,872
carlos86 said:
Amid the Manafort Russian payoff scandal, Donald Trump’s daughter goes on vacation with Putin’s girlfriend

</title> <link rel="profile" href="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11" /> <link rel="pingback" href="http://www.dailynewsbin.com/xmlrpc.php" /> <link rel="stylesheet" href="http://13458-presscdn-0-97.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/themes/bb-theme/css/bootstrap
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If this is true, and even if it isn't true, we've never seen an American presidential campaign this in bed with the Kremlin. This is just disgusting!

It's no wonder to me that some of the half-assed authoritarians on this site, who present themselves under the guise of Constitutionalists and freedom-lovers, are Trump True Believers because many of these same posters have always expressed a fondness for Putin. They want a strongman in control here, one who will force everyone - especially non-whites and non-Christians - to finally fall back in line.

No thank you. We don't need another Kremlin here in Washington. The Russians and Putin-lovers can keep their Kremlin where it belongs - in Moscow.
 
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#1,873
#1,873
You guys see where that one noble heart at a Trump rally heckled Dear Leader by shouting, "You're Putin's *****"? Luckily, security escorted him out before the Red Hats had a chance to move in on him.

That guy ought to be given a major award. At least a leg lamp, or something.
 
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#1,874
#1,874
LouderVol said:
how have we tried to take Russian land? not sure how boxing them at worst and ignoring them at best is trying to take their land. seems like we want them to stay only in their land. its only whenever they start crossing into other people's land that we care. Crimea and E. Ukraine etc.
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My post was in reference to the multiple times Russia has been invaded throughout history. Obviously, no one in today's world is going to amass a huge army on the eastern border of Russia and invade like Napolean or Hitler. History shows this would be unwise, but don't be naive to the fact that the West, led by the US, wants the Russian Federation resources to itself, and has for a long time.

Today a new tactic is used. Not a frontal military assault, yet a direct assault via media propaganda, money, and economic arm twisting sanctions is the more subtle approach. We infiltrate governments that have historical and economic ties with Russia and persuasively change the agenda to anti-Kremlin, while fabricating scenarios that induce a reaction from Russia that we can propagate as aggressive or unprovoked..

NATO is encircling Russia at the same time our government is funneling hundreds of millions of dollars through the National Endowment of Democracy(NED) to opposition leaders in Russia to create civil unrest..

We demonize countries with 10 or 12 political parties for being undemocratic, while the two party American system prevents democracy. Russia and it's land is already under attack. Most people are just too conditioned by our biased, anti Russian media to see it..
 
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