Josh Dobbs vs Vince Young....Who would you take?

#51
#51
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Not really. Dak Prescott made a big leap in 2014 going into his redshirt junior year. Brandon Allen made an even bigger leap in 2015 going into his redshirt senior year.

Go look up their stats. I actually made a thread about it a few months back. QBs make these big leaps very often from the 3rd to 4th year in a system. Allen was a little late waiting until his 5th year to make the big leap.

If we're simply talking passing stats, Josh is ahead of where Dak Prescott and Brandon Allen were as 3rd year players last season.
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Yes, really. You gave two examples, which are flawed examples as I'll point out next, and two examples are hardly any type of proof that the type of leap we're discussing is anything close to common. As for your two examples, you used Dak's 2014 season, which was his second year as a starter. For Brandon Allen, you used his 4th year as a starter. Neither of those leaps are comparable to the 3rd year as a starter comparison you made between Dobbs and VY. You simply cherry picked two examples that you thought fit your narrative, but in reality, they aren't the same comparison. The fact that you only gave those two as examples pretty much shows just how uncommon such a leap is.
 
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#52
#52
Giveem6 said:
You know, I've been on volnation for many years and I've never seen someone become so vilified for loving a quarterback more than his mom more than D4H. It's quite comical �� but he does have a point in the comparisons and I do think Dobbs has the ability to get better and prove alot of doubters wrong. The guy is only getting bigger, stronger, faster, and he's a quick learner. We'll see!!! GBO!
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That's not why he is "vilified"
 
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#54
#54
Nasavol said:
If my QB had passed for 85 yds the whole game, I am not so sure I would have let him throw at all the last possession. JD didn't get it done against AL or FL and you cannot spin it any other way.
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I don't think alot of people are looking at the whole picture on Dobbs and this last sentence in this quote is what I mean.

If this was tennis everyone saying Dobbs can't do this or that would be correct but it's not and alot of Dobbs struggles are more than just his fault.

His first year and a half his OL really didn't do their jobs either and no QB could get comfortable behind them and throw darts. I will say our last 4 or 5 games they did seem to improve and start to give him better protection.

He has numerous WR drops the past two years. Not just drops but I remember atleast 3 that hit WR in the hands last year and ricochet into interceptions. You also have bad routes being run which can make Dobbs look like he threw it nowhere near the WR.

Running this offense you are run first throw only when you have to which can be blamed on the scheme. Not saying I don't like it just saying it is what it is. There is not another team in FBS with a triple threat like we have in the backfield and if it isn't broke don't fix it.

With that said I'm not saying he isn't at fault on some throws but to just blame him and only him just isn't being fair.

As for the D4H question, I take Dobbs all day over Young. Much rather have his personality, leadership, work ethics and his community service. The scheme as I said is what it is but if the OL and WR play improves like it should I have no doubt Dobbs will look alot more comfortable throwing and will improve significantly.
 
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#55
#55
VonVol said:
I believe he has the potential to make a similar leap. The question is if he doesn't ,will it shut you up? I'm thinking no. It will be someone else's fault.
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Man people are getting so hostile towards D4H. He gets on my nerves at times as well but at the end of the day it's not that big of a deal because it's just his opinion about football. He is aggressive and his projections may seem outlandish but what does it really matter? I'm just happy that we have gotten back to the point of being able to talk about these things instead of which walk-on will be starting on the o-line. JMO
 
#57
#57
Giveem6 said:
You know, I've been on volnation for many years and I've never seen someone become so vilified for loving a quarterback more than his mom more than D4H. It's quite comical 😂 but he does have a point in the comparisons and I do think Dobbs has the ability to get better and prove alot of doubters wrong. The guy is only getting bigger, stronger, faster, and he's a quick learner. We'll see!!! GBO!
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Yeah, he does have a point.... if we go undefeated and win the title.
 
#58
#58
I realize Young led Texas to a national championship. I also realize most folks on here are going to throw stats around and weigh them.

However, even if it means taking Dobbs might mean I miss out on a championship, I still take him. In the here and now, I am proud of who Dobbs is, and Young has proven to be a complete head case after college. And whether Dobbs becomes an all pro, or the lead engineer at Spacely Sprockets, I know he is a guy that can win more than championships.

Therefore, I resist the overwhelming temptation to say Young just to upset the resident drama king.
 
#60
#60
Nasavol said:
If my QB had passed for 85 yds the whole game, I am not so sure I would have let him throw at all the last possession. JD didn't get it done against AL or FL and you cannot spin it any other way.
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It wasnt all Dobbs fault we lost those games. As a matter of fact, without Dobbs I think FL would have curbstomped us last year.
 
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#61
#61
Dudleys87 said:
If the two switched places we wouldnt have had the Oklahoma loss and the Florida loss. The jury is still out on Dobbs and honestly I don't see him making a huge improvement. He'll get Florida or bama not both. Most likely be the former even if they play bama twice.
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Your first sentence is pure BS. Those losses were not the result of one player.
 
#62
#62
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I don't think alot of people are looking at the whole picture on Dobbs and this last sentence in this quote is what I mean.

If this was tennis everyone saying Dobbs can't do this or that would be correct but it's not and alot of Dobbs struggles are more than just his fault.

His first year and a half his OL really didn't do their jobs either and no QB could get comfortable behind them and throw darts. I will say our last 4 or 5 games they did seem to improve and start to give him better protection.

He has numerous WR drops the past two years. Not just drops but I remember atleast 3 that hit WR in the hands last year and ricochet into interceptions. You also have bad routes being run which can make Dobbs look like he threw it nowhere near the WR.

Running this offense you are run first throw only when you have to which can be blamed on the scheme. Not saying I don't like it just saying it is what it is. There is not another team in FBS with a triple threat like we have in the backfield and if it isn't broke don't fix it.

With that said I'm not saying he isn't at fault on some throws but to just blame him and only him just isn't being fair.

As for the D4H question, I take Dobbs all day over Young. Much rather have his personality, leadership, work ethics and his community service. The scheme as I said is what it is but if the OL and WR play improves like it should I have no doubt Dobbs will look alot more comfortable throwing and will improve significantly.
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The bolded statement ladies and gentlemen, is why I started the Scheme thread and pointed out Lefevour's stats. It is not the scheme. More than capable of 250/200

Also, you can't have it both ways, if JD (all by himself) almost pulled out the wins v FL and AL, then, it is fair to say he didn't get it done in crunch time either.
 
#63
#63
I like Josh, but the answer is Young by a mile. Or two.

Wtf kind of question is this?
 
#64
#64
Phat-Phil said:
Man people are getting so hostile towards D4H. He gets on my nerves at times as well but at the end of the day it's not that big of a deal because it's just his opinion about football. He is aggressive and his projections may seem outlandish but what does it really matter? I'm just happy that we have gotten back to the point of being able to talk about these things instead of which walk-on will be starting on the o-line. JMO
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Hostile? You must be pretty sensitive.
 
#67
#67
83 yds is well beyond not great, that is close to abysmal. A frigging WR was within 3 yds of being our leading passer.

QBR under 100, yes he has 135 yds rushing, but, needed 1 first down to put it out of reach. same with OK and AL, and you are comparing him to VY... Unbelievable
 
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#68
#68
VonVol said:
I do think it's interesting that in making your comparison you leave out that Young rushed for over 1,000 yards in 2004.
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We were talking about PASSING.

I mentioned watching a documentary on the 2005 Texas football team on the Longhorn Network and hearing the media question before the start of the season if Vince could improve enough as a passer to lead Texas to a national title. I thought it sounded a lot like the talk about Dobbs this off-season. Some called me out on it. And I responded with that post.

I don't know why his rushing yards would have any relevance to him as a passer? I've already said I think Vince is a more talented runner than Josh. I do think Josh is the more talented passer though.
 
#69
#69
Diceman said:
Yes, really. You gave two examples, which are flawed examples as I'll point out next, and two examples are hardly any type of proof that the type of leap we're discussing is anything close to common. As for your two examples, you used Dak's 2014 season, which was his second year as a starter. For Brandon Allen, you used his 4th year as a starter. Neither of those leaps are comparable to the 3rd year as a starter comparison you made between Dobbs and VY. You simply cherry picked two examples that you thought fit your narrative, but in reality, they aren't the same comparison. The fact that you only gave those two as examples pretty much shows just how uncommon such a leap is.
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I don't have the time or patience to look the record books for more examples. Those 2 just came to mind because they happened recently in THIS CONFERENCE.

If I could find 2 examples in the last 2 years I'm sure it's common.
 
#70
#70
Orange_Vol1321 said:
I don't think alot of people are looking at the whole picture on Dobbs and this last sentence in this quote is what I mean.

If this was tennis everyone saying Dobbs can't do this or that would be correct but it's not and alot of Dobbs struggles are more than just his fault.

His first year and a half his OL really didn't do their jobs either and no QB could get comfortable behind them and throw darts. I will say our last 4 or 5 games they did seem to improve and start to give him better protection.

He has numerous WR drops the past two years. Not just drops but I remember atleast 3 that hit WR in the hands last year and ricochet into interceptions. You also have bad routes being run which can make Dobbs look like he threw it nowhere near the WR.

Running this offense you are run first throw only when you have to which can be blamed on the scheme. Not saying I don't like it just saying it is what it is. There is not another team in FBS with a triple threat like we have in the backfield and if it isn't broke don't fix it.

With that said I'm not saying he isn't at fault on some throws but to just blame him and only him just isn't being fair.

As for the D4H question, I take Dobbs all day over Young. Much rather have his personality, leadership, work ethics and his community service. The scheme as I said is what it is but if the OL and WR play improves like it should I have no doubt Dobbs will look alot more comfortable throwing and will improve significantly.
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Quoted for emphasis.

Great post.
 
#72
#72
Nasavol said:
83 yds is well beyond not great, that is close to abysmal. A frigging WR was within 3 yds of being our leading passer.

QBR under 100, yes he has 135 yds rushing, but, needed 1 first down to put it out of reach. same with OK and AL, and you are comparing him to VY... Unbelievable
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Dobbs had only attempted 14 passes before that final drive.

Go back and watch that game. Dobbs only missed TWO throws that game. The pump and go to Josh Smith that would've been for a long competition that he overthrew. And a short crossing route to North which he threw slightly behind him. He also missed an early screen pass to Kamara but it could have also been caused by pressure.

The abysmal paasing yards were not because Dobbs was missing throws. It was PLAY-CALLING. At one point in the 4th quarter CBS put up a graphic that said we had called 44 runs and just 14 passes.

It was PLAY-CALLING not Dobbs.
 
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#73
#73
TrueOrange said:
No they weren't. His accuracy was being questioned by scouts as far as a potential NFL career, also in part due to his sidearm throwing mechanics.

By 2005 Texas fans were all on board / gung ho about him leading them to a national championship after a 12-1 season, a top 5 finish, and his leading them to a Rose Bowl victory over Michigan the year before.
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Well D4H didn't follow college football until yesterday (as a fair weather fan) so you have to forgive his ignorance.
 
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#74
#74
I hope he does. Dobbs is really the key to the success and distance the team goes. If he plays like VY then we will be the team to beat in the nation by far.
 
#75
#75
Being a Titan fan too, I can't separate the NFL Vince from the College Vince. Million dollar body...10 cent brain. I'll take Dobbs everyday...all day...
 
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