Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXVI

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#1,626
#1,626
Some stats:

Total Defense - Penn State 14th, Tennessee 36th

Penn State scoring offense against - 60, 82, 78, 46, 109, 24, 28, 95, 103, 114, 50, 60, 85; ave = 72th

Tennessee scoring offense against - 6, 4, 128, 100, 27, 85, 30, 95, 110, 123, 126, 123, 114; ave = 82nd

Not to mention Tennessee had a complimentary scoring offense ranked 29th to help their defense compared to Penn State's 101st. And the talent disparity - more with less.
 
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#1,627
#1,627
BigZiti09 said:
Careful. You're not allowed to question Shoop on this board. Posters will pull out the stats and tell you how awesome he is going to be and that his success is unavoidable. Teams will be lucky to advance past midfield on Shoop's D now that he isn't at Vandy or PSU.

Never mind that teams went vanilla vs Vandy or that PSU plays in the big 10 where teams look like they guzzled nyquil before taking the field. None of that matters. Shoop will dominate the SEC. Stats don't lie.
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Cry me a damn river.
 
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#1,630
#1,630
BaldBiker said:
^ Good post. May or may not agree with it, but it is a valid point that leaves room for discussion.



^Also a good post. Lets people know your opinion and that you are just waiting to see what he is going to do.




They have stats to back up their opinions. It doesn't matter where their stats came from. Good/great coaches come from schools all over the country...even from FCS schools. So there is at least some bases for their opinions using those stats. Seems like your opinion is based off of nothing more than, you haven't seen him do it here, therefore you don't want to be excited about him. That's an easy way to feel about it, and it also requires nothing to back it up. Nothing wrong with that, but it seems a little crazy to me to be upset with people who disagree that actually do have some sort of factual information to base their feelings off of.

JMO of course, but felt it had to be said since in one fell swoop you just put down a large portion of VN with this post. Time will tell which side is right. I hope you are at least hoping you are the one that's wrong and the people using stats for their opinion are right. I know there are a very small few on here that it seems like they would rather us lose, just so they can be right in the end.

All JMO, which in the long run, really means nothing either. :hi:
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Yeah I'm not implying he's Sunseri. I am rooting for him to be dominant but I'm just leaning back and waiting til I see product.

I had an argument with an fsu fan a few years back calling a position a question mark. Doesn't mean it's negative. It's just unknown.
 
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#1,632
#1,632
I've got 99 problems, but Shoop's defense is not one of them.

"We never should have gotten rid of Jancek for Shoop. That was a step backwards."

You've read that sentence once... and you will never read it again... at least when you jokers stop quoting this post.
 
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#1,633
#1,633
BigZiti09 said:
Careful. You're not allowed to question Shoop on this board. Posters will pull out the stats and tell you how awesome he is going to be and that his success is unavoidable. Teams will be lucky to advance past midfield on Shoop's D now that he isn't at Vandy or PSU.

Never mind that teams went vanilla vs Vandy or that PSU plays in the big 10 where teams look like they guzzled nyquil before taking the field. None of that matters. Shoop will dominate the SEC. Stats don't lie.
Click to expand...

Sorry. I had to come back to this. What do you mean teams went vanilla against Vandy? We are talking about the years that Shoop was there. Not before he got there, not after he left. While he was there.

2011 - Vandy went 6-7 .....go back and look....maybe two teams had the opportunity to go vanilla.

2012 - Vandy went 9-4 ......go back and look....only one team really had the opportunity to go vanilla.

2013 - Vandy went 9-4 .....go back and look ....two teams had the chance to go vanilla.

Without pulling up the numbers, I would guess more teams went vanilla against us during that time frame than did Vandy.

Now excuse me while I go pour gasoline on myself to get the stench of saying anything remotely good about Vandy.
 
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#1,634
#1,634
nicksjuzunk said:
I've got 99 problems, but Shoop's defense is not one of them.

"We never should have gotten rid of Jancek for Shoop. That was a step backwards."

You've read that sentence once... and you will never read it again... at least when you jokers stop quoting this post.
Click to expand...
Versace Versace Versace Versace Versace Versace Versace Versace
 
#1,635
#1,635
BaldBiker said:
Sorry. I had to come back to this. What do you mean teams went vanilla against Vandy? We are talking about the years that Shoop was there. Not before he got there, not after he left. While he was there.

2011 - Vandy went 6-7 .....go back and look....maybe two teams had the opportunity to go vanilla.

2012 - Vandy went 9-4 ......go back and look....only one team really had the opportunity to go vanilla.

2013 - Vandy went 9-4 .....go back and look ....two teams had the chance to go vanilla.

Without pulling up the numbers, I would guess more teams went vanilla against us during that time frame than did Vandy.

Now excuse me while I go pour gasoline on myself to get the stench of saying anything remotely good about Vandy.
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I'm not sure what time confession is on Thursday, but you probably want to stop by there too.

Good things about Vandy...:::shudders:::
 
#1,637
#1,637
zhangliao04 said:
As a career chemist....everything new is unproven until proven in the state that it is being referenced in.
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A collection of data from different settings and at different times which have the same result has a very high degree of probability to be true. Epidemiology is used every day in predicting to a high probability of what has caused an event and what should happen in the future. Therefore, I predict that Tennessee's -Shoop's defense will be very very good in 2016.
 
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#1,638
#1,638
utvols88 said:
Yeah I'm not implying he's Sunseri. I am rooting for him to be dominant but I'm just leaning back and waiting til I see product.

I had an argument with an fsu fan a few years back calling a position a question mark. Doesn't mean it's negative. It's just unknown.
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I guess I just can't see calling someone who has been an FBS defensive coordinator for the last 5 seasons (3 of which were in the SEC) an uknown. He could fail, sure, because nothing is certain. I just don't see him as an unknown since he has a body of work for us to base our opinions on.

:hi:
 
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#1,640
#1,640
The East race is really going to be interesting so many questions, what do you see happening?

Do you think UGA will be improved without Richt? Do you think they struggle with a first year coach? Does Eason light the world on fire? Does Chaney actually lean on his good RB's and not pass all the time? Is the talent there in the trenches?

What happens with UF? Is Del Rio good enough to make them look more like the UF that beat TN and Ole Miss back to back with Grier last year? Or are they closer to the dumpster fire that ended the season with Treon? They still have gobs of D talent on the front line, but IMO the 2nd string is starting to dip with McElwain's recruiting. The OL is a year more experienced and they actually are starting to get some weapons on O with Calloway, Powell and some good new RB's.

Then obviously with TN we should be by far the best but the schedule is not favorable in that we have our most important stretch all in a row. Can we get through UF, @UGA, @A&M and Bama with only 1 loss? If we have 2 L's in that stretch and one of them is to either UF or UGA it will be hard to win the East IMO.

I'd like a good discussion on what to expect from these three. What are everyone's thoughts on UGA and UF and the schedule break down. Here is how I see it as of right now. I think UF has the best draw, because with UGA having a young QB I could see them slipping up at sleepers like @SC the week after they play us or early @Missouri.




UGA 2-1-4
@ Missouri - Toss Up
@Ole Miss - L
Tennessee - Toss Up
@SC - Toss Up
Vandy - W
Florida* - Toss Up
@Kentucky - W
Auburn - Toss up

Tennessee 4-0-4
Florida - Toss Up
@Georgia - Toss Up
@A&M - Toss Up
Bama - Toss Up
@SC - W
Missouri - W
UK - W
@Vandy - W

Florida 4-1-3
Kentucky - W
@ Tennessee - Toss Up
@Vanderbilt - W
LSU - L
Missouri - W
UGA* - Toss Up
@Arkansas - Toss Up
SC - W
 
#1,642
#1,642
chavisut said:
I don't care if he was coaching in the Sun Belt, you don't field a top 25 defense five straight years without some chops.
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Agree with this.

I think Shoop was a great hire. People misunderstand the point I'm trying to make.

Oh well. I've stirred it up already. Like I said, you're not allowed to question anything related to Bob Shoop.
 
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#1,645
#1,645
BaldBiker said:
Seems like your opinion is based off of nothing more than, you haven't seen him do it here, therefore you don't want to be excited about him. That's an easy way to feel about it, and it also requires nothing to back it up. Nothing wrong with that, but it seems a little crazy to me to be upset with people who disagree that actually do have some sort of factual information to base their feelings off of.

JMO of course, but felt it had to be said since in one fell swoop you just put down a large portion of VN with this post. Time will tell which side is right. I hope you are at least hoping you are the one that's wrong and the people using stats for their opinion are right. I know there are a very small few on here that it seems like they would rather us lose, just so they can be right in the end.

All JMO, which in the long run, really means nothing either. :hi:
Click to expand...

I expect Shoop to do great. I think he is in all likelihood the best defensive coordinator hire we have made since Chief was hired.

However, I think people are making a leap based on stats from his previous two stops. The stats are a great indicator that he will do well here but this is the big time now.

Here is my point......

We brought Shoop in to stop teams like Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU and Auburn. He wasn't hired to help us eek out a win over UK or to stop Minnesota. There is a difference and I'm sorry but all the stats in the world aren't going to tell us whether or not he's going to do that here. :hi:
 
#1,646
#1,646
BigZiti09 said:
Agree with this.

I think Shoop was a great hire. People misunderstand the point I'm trying to make.

Oh well. I've stirred it up already. Like I said, you're not allowed to question anything related to Bob Shoop.
Click to expand...

You almost made it through a post without whining. Almost.
 
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#1,648
#1,648
BigZiti09 said:
I expect Shoop to do great. I think he is in all likelihood the best defensive coordinator hire we have made since Chief was hired.

However, I think people are making a leap based on stats from his previous two stops. The stats are a great indicator that he will do well here but this is the big time now.

Here is my point......

We brought Shoop in to stop teams like Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU and Auburn. He wasn't hired to help us eek out a win over UK or to stop Minnesota. There is a difference and I'm sorry but all the stats in the world aren't going to tell us whether or not he's going to do that here. :hi:
Click to expand...


This is definitely a better post that leaves the room open for discussion. Instead of just saying, you'll get flamed if you disagree with others.

I said in my first post that I may or may not agree with these thoughts. In fact, while I do think his body of work does come into play, I absolutely agree with you here. We won't know if he can do it here until we see him do it here. The previous stats from previous stops should be enough to give people hope though. There is nothing wrong with people feeling that way either.
 
#1,649
#1,649
BigZiti09 said:
I expect Shoop to do great. I think he is in all likelihood the best defensive coordinator hire we have made since Chief was hired.

However, I think people are making a leap based on stats from his previous two stops. The stats are a great indicator that he will do well here but this is the big time now.

Here is my point......

We brought Shoop in to stop teams like Bama, Georgia, Florida, LSU and Auburn. He wasn't hired to help us eek out a win over UK or to stop Minnesota. There is a difference and I'm sorry but all the stats in the world aren't going to tell us whether or not he's going to do that here. :hi:
Click to expand...

We had Florida beat with a Jancek defense giving up five 4th down conversions. If everyone agrees that Stoop is a step up, we put pressure on Grier late. We win that game and play in the SECCG.

Sure, his previous stats won't help this year's team, but his defensive philosophy, scheme, and play-calling will.
 
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#1,650
#1,650
BaldBiker said:
This is definitely a better post that leaves the room open for discussion. Instead of just saying, you'll get flamed if you disagree with others.

I said in my first post that I may or may not agree with these thoughts. In fact, while I do think his body of work does come into play, I absolutely agree with you here. We won't know if he can do it here until we see him do it here. The previous stats from previous stops should be enough to give people hope though. There is nothing wrong with people feeling that way either.
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Agree and good post.

I didn't delve into the argument off the bat because I've been down this road before and it ends the same way. Posters telling me I am an idiot because I don't believe in stats. Well I don't always trust stats and I have valid reasons.

We should feel great about Shoop but I cringe when I see posters doing the "Shoop was top 25 at PSU and Vandy. Can you imagine what he's going to do here?" talk. It's not that simple. Sure, we should feel great about the hire but we won't know if he can do what he was brought here to do until we see him do it.
 
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