Phil Steele: Tennessee is a National Title Contender

#151
#151
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Alabama had 3 True Freshmen starting in the national title game. I believe Clemson had another 3 as well.

If you don't remember, go back and watch the game and see how many times they say the player making a big play is a freshmen.
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there's a difference in having to play true freshmen, and choosing to.
 
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#152
#152
jakez4ut said:
there's little doubt Bama is to the point that CBJ has, referenced many times, said he wants to be.

the point is Alabama is to that point of being a c'ship program, not just a once in a while contender.

alabama, Ohio State, USC, Oklahoma...FSU and now Clemson...all kind of to that point.

we're not quite there yet, but on our way.
Click to expand...

I still think we could beat Bama.
But trying to spin that as on paper we out talent them, is an entirely different joke.
 
#153
#153
chargervol said:
I hear this Alabama stuff every year. I think last year they were going to finish second or third in the West. All because they lost players so and so. They just plug the next guy in every freaking year. You think people would learn after a while.
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They would have finished 2nd in the west if not for a 4th and 25 backward lateral.

Alabama was the champ. But lets not act like they were a juggernaut last year. In many ways they got LUCKY.
 
#155
#155
chargervol said:
I still think we could beat Bama.
But trying to spin that as on paper we out talent them, is an entirely different joke.
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i think we can beat them too. our two deep is probably at least as good as anyone we'll play.

i was more speaking on where the programs are.
 
#156
#156
KBVol said:
By that blanket logic, I guess you can't say that Alabama's talent isn't any better than Vanderbilt's either...... "just because they're ranked higher".
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How do you measure yourself against other players?
-with a ruler.
:eek:lol:
 
#157
#157
chargervol said:
Because their 2015 class was heads and shoulders number one above everyone else. All they talked about was how big the Gap was.
I'm trying not to be rude so I want you to understand this is a serious question.
Do you understand that having that amazing of a class doesn't mean your other number 1 classes suck? Seriously do you get that?
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You can keep focusing on the #1 designation. I'll focus on what's happened on the field the last 2 years.

I wouldn't trade our #5 class in 2014 for Alabama's #1 class. PERIOD.
 
#158
#158
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
They would have finished 2nd in the west if not for a 4th and 25 backward lateral.

Alabama was the champ. But lets not act like they were a juggernaut last year. In many ways they got LUCKY.
Click to expand...
Every game requires luck. Their only loss was also due to absolutely nothing but luck. So don't try to spin that either.
 
#160
#160
I agree that we should be. And if we get through that four-game Murderers Row undefeated, we will be. One loss to Bama, and we still can be. Two losses, and we probably won't be. UF is the fork in the road. Get the gator off our back, and confidence can carry us to ATL.
 
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#161
#161
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You can keep focusing on the #1 designation. I'll focus on what's happened on the field the last 2 years.

I wouldn't trade our #5 class in 2014 for Alabama's #1 class. PERIOD.
Click to expand...

And I don't feel the need to focus on one class. It's a combination of three or four that's why they out talent us.
 
#162
#162
jakez4ut said:
there's little doubt Bama is to the point that CBJ has, referenced many times, said he wants to be.

the point is Alabama is to that point of being a c'ship program, not just a once in a while contender.

alabama, Ohio State, USC, Oklahoma...FSU and now Clemson...all kind of to that point.

we're not quite there yet, but on our way....keep building quality depth, and put together a resume of winning.
Click to expand...

USC? Oklahoma? Clemson?

The only programs with 3-4 straight top 5 recruiting are Alabama, Florida State, Ohio State, and LSU.

Those are the teams that have perenial top 5 classes and are built to contend every year.

USC has lost 5-6 games the last few years. Oklahoma is Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Hyde. They contend one year and are garbage the next. Clemson is really a one year wonder. And I attribute that to the brilliance of Deshaun Watson. Lets see if they're still beating FSU without him.
 
#163
#163
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
They would have finished 2nd in the west if not for a 4th and 25 backward lateral.

Alabama was the champ. But lets not act like they were a juggernaut last year. In many ways they got LUCKY.
Click to expand...

Oh good lord. If you're going to bring luck into the conversation this is a whole different ball game.

And I mean Alabama was not just a lucky team last year. They were a juggernaut. Like chargervol said you can attribute their only loss to luck as well. They steamrolled LSU, and pretty much every opponent from that point forward. It wasn't until the National Title game that anyone was able to compete with them.
 
#164
#164
VersaceButch said:
Finally. Thank you for making this point. Although I'm sure he will do his best to spin it to fit his own narrative just like he does with every other crazy comment.
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He's just put all of his bets on Dobbs winning the Heisman. It's become clear recently they pick the winner from the championship team.
So, while have a better shot of making the championship than we have in years, Our odds still aren't as great as some.
Instead of having to say he was wrong, he'll just blame Jones for losing to aNY team trying to say we out talent all of them.
That's why he's trying to sell it so hard that Bama guys are just flopping all over the place.
 
#165
#165
chargervol said:
He's just put all of his bets on Dobbs winning the Heisman. It's become clear recently they pick the winner from the championship team.
So, while have a better shot of making the championship than we have in years, Our odds still aren't as great as some.
Instead of having to say he was wrong, he'll just blame Jones for losing to aNY team trying to say we out talent all of them.
That's why he's trying to sell it so hard that Bama guys are just flopping all over the place.
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He also stated earlier in this thread that anything less than a National Championship is a disappointment. It's just part of his extremes.

Idk about you, but 10-2 with an SEC Championship victory would be pretty dope, regardless of playoff situations. Heck, I'd even venture as far to say 11-1 and a loss in the first round of the playoffs would be a successful season but who am I to say. That's just crazy talk :p:p:p
 
#166
#166
utvolpj said:
If only it was just one thread

They aren't nearly as ridiculous as you all want them to be
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-15-0 and national champions
-anything less than 15-0 and a natty is a disappointment and failure
-Dobbs is the best QB in the country and a sure fire first round pick.
-Hurd is the best RB in the country and the best RB in Tennessee history.
-we're the most talented team in the country, in particular we're more talented than Alabama and Ohio State

There's 5 recent infamous D4H statements....what about or which one of those statements isn't/aren't ridiculous? The only one I wouldn't call necessarily ridiculous is that we can go 15-0 and win a natty. While it's very unlikely and a reach its not necessarily "ridiculous", but it doesn't miss by much.
 
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#167
#167
chargervol said:
I still think we could beat Bama.
But trying to spin that as on paper we out talent them, is an entirely different joke.
Click to expand...

We're more talented ON THE FIELD. I'll take our projected starting 22 over theirs anyday.

I'll just ask you a few questions:

1. Would you take Josh Dobbs or Cooper Bateman as our QB?
2. Would you take Jalen Hurd and Alvin Kamara or Bo Scarborough and Damian Harris at RB?
3. Would you take Derek Barnett and Corey Vereen at DE or Jonathan Allen and Tim Williams? (this one is actually close)
4. Would you take JRM and Darrin Kirkland at LB or Rueben Foster and Rashaan Evans?
5. Would you take Cam Sutton and Justin Martin at CB or Minkah Fitzpatrick and Marlon Humphrey?
6. Would you take Todd Kelly Jr. and Rashaan Gaulden at S or Eddie Jackson and Ronnie Harrison?
7. Would you take anyone in the country over Evan Berry as a kick returner?
8. Would you take anyone in the country over Cam Sutton as a punt returner?

If you go position by position, I think we easily outclass Alabama at QB, RB, LB, and special teams.

It's pretty even at DE, CB, and S.

I would give Alabama a strong edge at WR/TE and DT (largely because of the injury to Shy Tuttle and suspension to Alexis Johnson).

Offensive line is the big question mark for both teams. We should be better. But by how much? And Alabama has the Cam Robinson thing still hanging over their head. If they lose him their o-line becomes significantly worse.

Based on the talent on the field, I give us the edge right now in a breakdown of positional groups.
 
#169
#169
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
USC? Oklahoma? Clemson?

The only programs with 3-4 straight top 5 recruiting are Alabama, Florida State, Ohio State, and LSU.

Those are the teams that have perenial top 5 classes and are built to contend every year.

USC has lost 5-6 games the last few years. Oklahoma is Dr. Jeckyl/Mr. Hyde. They contend one year and are garbage the next. Clemson is really a one year wonder. And I attribute that to the brilliance of Deshaun Watson. Lets see if they're still beating FSU without him.
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CLemson:
2011 10-4, won ACC title game, won BCS bowl
2012 11-2, Beat LSU in Peach Bowl
2013 11-2, Beat Ohio St. in BCS bowl
2014 10-3, beat Ok in Citrus bowl
2015, 14-1, won ACC title, play off game, national runner up.

OU
2011: 10-3 beat Iowa in Fiesta bowl
2012: 10-3 Lost Cotton bowl
2013: 11-2 beat Alabama BCS bowl
2014: 8-5, lost to clemson Citrius bowl
2015: 11-2, won Big 12, play off appearance

USC
2011: 10-2, no post season
2012: 7-6 lost sun bowl
2013: 10-3 lost Las Vegas bowl
2014: 10-4, won Holiday Bowl
2015: 8-6, lost Pac 12 title game, lost holiday bowl

Clemson, 56 wins in the last 5 years. (11 w/year)
OU 50 wins in the last 5 years (10w/year)
USC 45 wins in the last 5 years. (9 w/year)
 
#170
#170
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Alabama had 3 True Freshmen starting in the national title game. I believe Clemson had another 3 as well.

If you don't remember, go back and watch the game and see how many times they say the player making a big play is a freshmen.
Click to expand...

Then by your logic they are gonna be damn good this year if not better, which makes it harder for us to go 15-0. Just because we have some really good starters doesn't mean Bama is irrelevant anymore. I seem to recall they won the NC last year with a QB that didn't even get drafted.

Trust me, they are extremely talented.
 
#171
#171
chargervol said:
Every game requires luck. Their only loss was also due to absolutely nothing but luck. So don't try to spin that either.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't equate fumbling kickoffs inside your 30 yard line with a 4th and 25 backward lateral.

But if you want to call the Alabama-Ole Miss loss as equally LUCKY as the Arkansas-Ole Miss game then go right ahead.
 
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#172
#172
chargervol said:
Because their 2015 class was heads and shoulders number one above everyone else. All they talked about was how big the Gap was.
I'm trying not to be rude so I want you to understand this is a serious question.
Do you understand that having that amazing of a class doesn't mean your other number 1 classes suck? Seriously do you get that?
Click to expand...

You want the honest answer? If it helps his argument he'd most assuredly "get it". If not, no way, it's all foolishness and drivel......unless he forgets this particular debate and needs this point to buttress his opposite argument tomorrow.
 
#174
#174
KBVol said:
-15-0 and national champions
-anything less than 15-0 and a natty is a disappointment and failure
-Dobbs is the best QB in the country and a sure fire first round pick.
-Hurd is the best RB in the country and the best RB in Tennessee history.
-we're the most talented team in the country, in particular we're more talented than Alabama and Ohio State

There's 5 recent infamous D4H statements....what about or which one of those statements isn't/aren't ridiculous? The only one I would call necessarily ridiculous is that we can go 15-0 and win a natty. While it's very unlikely and a reach its not necessarily "ridiculous", but it doesn't miss by much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, honestly I was surprised anyone would try and defend D4H and his claims. But, I would rather be proven wrong and celebrate a natty this time next year.

And even if we did win a natty, it's still hard to quantify who the more talented team is and the best player, etc. because it's many times such a subjective argument.
 
#175
#175
jakez4ut said:
CLemson:
2011 10-4, won ACC title game, won BCS bowl
2012 11-2, Beat LSU in Peach Bowl
2013 11-2, Beat Ohio St. in BCS bowl
2014 10-3, beat Ok in Citrus bowl
2015, 14-1, won ACC title, play off game, national runner up.

OU
2011: 10-3 beat Iowa in Fiesta bowl
2012: 10-3 Lost Cotton bowl
2013: 11-2 beat Alabama BCS bowl
2014: 8-5, lost to clemson Citrius bowl
2015: 11-2, won Big 12, play off appearance

USC
2011: 10-2, no post season
2012: 7-6 lost sun bowl
2013: 10-3 lost Las Vegas bowl
2014: 10-4, won Holiday Bowl
2015: 8-6, lost Pac 12 title game, lost holiday bowl

Clemson, 56 wins in the last 5 years. (11 w/year)
OU 50 wins in the last 5 years (10w/year)
USC 45 wins in the last 5 years. (9 w/year)
Click to expand...

See Charger, your problem is you rely on stats way too much. Those numbers get in the way of my intuition and gut feeling.

-D4H
 
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