The real problem with the pass game is PLAYCALLING

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Just look at these stats.

First Down - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Team Leaders

- 1st down pass attempts: 12th in the SEC

- 1st down completion %: 9th in the SEC

- 1st down passer rating: 12th in the SEC

Second Down - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Team Leaders

- 2nd down pass attempts: 5th in the SEC

- 2nd down completion %: 6th in the SEC

- 2nd down passer rating: 6th in the SEC

Third Down - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Team Leaders

- 3rd down pass attempts: 3rd in the SEC

- 3rd down completion %: 4th in the SEC

- 3rd down passer rating: 4th in the SEC

If our QB is the problem in the pass game, why do our passing stats go up the more times we attempt to pass as well as the tougher the passing down gets?

Individually on 3rd down, Dobbs was far and away the best QB in the SEC. He converted more 3rd downs than any QB in the SEC. Plus he finished tied for 16th overall in the country. Here are the numbers: cfbstats.com - 2015 National Player Leaders

See the guy he's tied with? None other than everyone's heisman favorite for 2016.....Deshaun Watson. In 2 less games, Dobbs converted the same 48 first downs through the air as Watson. He completed a higher percentage of his 3rd down passes (55.4% vs. 52.6%). And he also threw 2 less interceptions (2 vs. 4) while Watson threw 3 more TDs (9 vs. 6).

All this is to say that the numbers show Dobbs isn't the problem with the pass game. On the toughest down to throw the ball (3rd down) he throws it with the best of the them. Our pass game really only struggled on 1st down. And mainly because we don't attempt that many passes.

Usually 1st down passes are the easiest to throw because they are the least likely to be anticipated by the defense. Its where a lot of the prolific passing teams like Ole Miss did their damage last year.

Josh Dobbs can be the best QB in the country. Its time for our coaches to stop shackling him on 1st down.

 

[UT Hill Man]

Dobbs is great - and you make good points, but he has accuracy issues as well. We need across the board improvement from all involved to take the big step this year.

 

[ptcarter]

Lots of those passes were screens caught in the backfield. Basically a running play falling into a passing statistic.

 

[Vol_is_Lyfe18]

Dobbs is great - and you make good points, but he has accuracy issues as well. We need across the board improvement from all involved to take the big step this year.

This

 

[MSME Vol]

Ainge talked about this a few weeks ago on RTI radio. One of his key points was that we also averaged 6 yards a run on first down. Hard to argue for passing more if you do that with consistency.

 

[UT-Rex]

Well, I saw the thread title and naturally assumed it was a post from Coach Azzanni, but was surprised to see it was actually from D4H. Ehh, just kidding all around / thanks for the thoughts and the stats -- keep up the good work passing game, and GO VOLS 2016 !!

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Dobbs is great - And you make good points, but he has accuracy issues as well. We need across the board improvement from all involved to take the big step this year.

So does Deshaun Watson I guess.

Cause if you look at 3rd downs, Dobbs completed 55.4% of his passes compared to Watson's 52.6%.

I never said Dobbs was perfect. Like every young QB he needs to improve every part of his game. However, this idea he's chronically inaccurate is simply UNTRUE. You can't be an inaccurate passer yet be one of the best in the nation at converting 3rd downs through the air.

The only reason Josh's completion % looks low compared to guys like Chad Kelly or Deshaun Watson is because we don't throw more on 1st down when the defense isn't anticipating pass. We ran the ball more than anyone in the country last year on first down.

I'll keep repeating this line. You can't be an inaccurate passer yet be one of the best in the nation at converting 3rd downs through the air. That just doesn't jive logically.

 

[utvolpj]

Ainge talked about this a few weeks ago on RTI radio. One of his key points was that we also averaged 6 yards a run on first down. Hard to argue for passing more if you do that with consistency.

I don't understand the desire to throw more on 1st with stats like that (I doubt even a former qb would either). With our backfield it's the way our offense will run. It's our identity

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Your obsession is borderline rockhillvol's obsession with Worley.

Dobbs is a fantastic QB and has done great things on and off the field. But he is far from perfect on the field just like any other QB who has ever suited up for UT.

 

[jakez4ut]

it's just bait. don't take it. we ran for almost 3000 yards last year, and averages over 4-5 yards/carry on 1st down.

these stats have no context, don't take the bait.

 

[volfan102455]

Ainge talked about this a few weeks ago on RTI radio. One of his key points was that we also averaged 6 yards a run on first down. Hard to argue for passing more if you do that with consistency.

This stat indicates to run the ball on first down. 2nd and 4 gives more options than 2nd and 10 does.

The only folks that say pass ... pass ... pass with this type of run average are those that would prefer an offense that depends on passing rather that rushing.

 

[jakez4ut]

Ainge talked about this a few weeks ago on RTI radio. One of his key points was that we also averaged 6 yards a run on first down. Hard to argue for passing more if you do that with consistency.

I stand corrected...thanks:hi:

 

[OrngeChkrboardVFL]

Everyone knows Dobbs is a good QB. All he needs to do is hit 50% more of the deep throws and we will coast to Atlanta. If he makes 20 throws this season beyond 30 yds and hits 10 to 12 of them, we are good to go. That will let the defenses know that he can throw if needed and they will be forced to keep that in mind before they release when he scrambles. Spread the defense out against appy state and let a few rip down the sidelines. It doesn't matter what down it is or how many per down this season. The defenses just have to respect that he "can" throw.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

So does Deshaun Watson I guess.

Cause if you look at 3rd downs, Dobbs completed 55.4% of his passes compared to Watson's 52.6%.

I never said Dobbs was perfect. Like every young QB he needs to improve every part of his game. However, this idea he's chronically inaccurate is simply UNTRUE. You can't be an inaccurate passer yet be one of the best in the nation at converting 3rd downs through the air.

The only reason Josh's completion % looks low compared to guys like Chad Kelly or Deshaun Watson is because we don't throw more on 1st down when the defense isn't anticipating pass. We ran the ball more than anyone in the country last year on first down.

I'll keep repeating this line. You can't be an inaccurate passer yet be one of the best in the nation at converting 3rd downs through the air. That just doesn't jive logically.

Because UT has one of the most talented backfields in the country to compliment Dobbs style of game. So why wouldn't you run it on 1st down?

So you want UT to stop running the ball and throw more because you feel like it's holding Dobb's back in the stats game?

 

[Dragon18]

Just look at these stats.

First Down - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Team Leaders

- 1st down pass attempts: 12th in the SEC

- 1st down completion %: 9th in the SEC

- 1st down passer rating: 12th in the SEC

Second Down - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Team Leaders

- 2nd down pass attempts: 5th in the SEC

- 2nd down completion %: 6th in the SEC

- 2nd down passer rating: 6th in the SEC

Third Down - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Team Leaders

- 3rd down pass attempts: 3rd in the SEC

- 3rd down completion %: 4th in the SEC

- 3rd down passer rating: 4th in the SEC

If our QB is the problem in the pass game, why do our passing stats go up the more times we attempt to pass as well as the tougher the passing down gets?

Individually on 3rd down, Dobbs was far and away the best QB in the SEC. He converted more 3rd downs than any QB in the SEC. Plus he finished tied for 16th overall in the country. Here are the numbers: cfbstats.com - 2015 National Player Leaders

See the guy he's tied with? None other than everyone's heisman favorite for 2016.....Deshaun Watson. In 2 less games, Dobbs converted the same 48 first downs through the air as Watson. He completed a higher percentage of his 3rd down passes (55.4% vs. 52.6%). And he also threw 2 less interceptions (2 vs. 4) while Watson threw 3 more TDs (9 vs. 6).

All this is to say that the numbers show Dobbs isn't the problem with the pass game. On the toughest down to throw the ball (3rd down) he throws it with the best of the them. Our pass game really only struggled on 1st down. And mainly because we don't attempt that many passes.

Usually 1st down passes are the easiest to throw because they are the least likely to be anticipated by the defense. Its where a lot of the prolific passing teams like Ole Miss did their damage last year.

Josh Dobbs can be the best QB in the country. Its time for our coaches to stop shackling him on 1st down.

You're fitting numbers into a conclusion that may not necessarily be accurate. We are a down and distance team and because of this rarely see 3rd and really long. Don't expect that to change and I for one don't want it to given our running game. I appreciate the effort digging up this data but without examining our completion % on 3rd and long v 3rd and not so long you may not be getting the complete picture. IE if we are 3rd and 4 the defense really can't sell out on pass.

This is really an incomplete thought and I obviously haven't dug up the data.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Lots of those passes were screens caught in the backfield. Basically a running play falling into a passing statistic.

The great thing about the website cfbstats.com is I can call you out on BS like this.

Dobbs actually led the SEC in converting 3rd and medium (4-6 yards) as well as 3rd and long (7-9 yards) last season.

On plays of 3rd and 4-6 yards to go - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Player Leaders

- Dobbs was #1 in the SEC with 18 convertions (5 more than the second closest player Dak Prescott).

- Dobbs was 3rd in completion %.

On plays of 3rd and 7-9 yards to go - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Player Leaders

- Dobbs was once again #1 in the SEC with 16 convertions (5 more than the second closest player once again).

- Dobbs was 6th in the SEC in completion %.


You don't convert 34 3rd downs between 4-9 yards from screen passes. Give credit where credit is due. On 3rd downs, Dobbs balled out last year.

 

[volmandu]

Just look at these stats.

First Down - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Team Leaders

- 1st down pass attempts: 12th in the SEC

- 1st down completion %: 9th in the SEC

- 1st down passer rating: 12th in the SEC

Second Down - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Team Leaders

- 2nd down pass attempts: 5th in the SEC

- 2nd down completion %: 6th in the SEC

- 2nd down passer rating: 6th in the SEC

Third Down - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Team Leaders

- 3rd down pass attempts: 3rd in the SEC

- 3rd down completion %: 4th in the SEC

- 3rd down passer rating: 4th in the SEC

If our QB is the problem in the pass game, why do our passing stats go up the more times we attempt to pass as well as the tougher the passing down gets?

Individually on 3rd down, Dobbs was far and away the best QB in the SEC. He converted more 3rd downs than any QB in the SEC. Plus he finished tied for 16th overall in the country. Here are the numbers: cfbstats.com - 2015 National Player Leaders

See the guy he's tied with? None other than everyone's heisman favorite for 2016.....Deshaun Watson. In 2 less games, Dobbs converted the same 48 first downs through the air as Watson. He completed a higher percentage of his 3rd down passes (55.4% vs. 52.6%). And he also threw 2 less interceptions (2 vs. 4) while Watson threw 3 more TDs (9 vs. 6).

All this is to say that the numbers show Dobbs isn't the problem with the pass game. On the toughest down to throw the ball (3rd down) he throws it with the best of the them. Our pass game really only struggled on 1st down. And mainly because we don't attempt that many passes.

Usually 1st down passes are the easiest to throw because they are the least likely to be anticipated by the defense. Its where a lot of the prolific passing teams like Ole Miss did their damage last year.

Josh Dobbs can be the best QB in the country. Its time for our coaches to stop shackling him on 1st down.

For those who watched the game the numbers make sense. A lot of first down passes were long or deep passes where Dobbs struggles.
Most of 3rd down passes were either hitches or slants. Dobbs is much better with short passes. Stats can be misleading. Dobbs only had 5 INTs. That shows he is careful with football but not to mistake with 'accuracy in thowing'. He just threw a lot of slants and hitches.

 

[OrngeChkrboardVFL]

I personally think it is a mental thing with Dobbs. Especially during the overtime against OU. I think Butch has him regimented to stick to the plays and run if they break down. Ball protection and limiting turnovers were instilled into them and Dobbs may not be looking for the open guy but solely for the play that was called. Then, when a deep pass play is called, he is so focused and concerned on throwing it accurately that he doesn't just let it fly. This is obviously just my perspective and I might be WAY off. I just know from my playing days that there is a big difference in just running the play and thinking about running the play while you are doing it.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

You keep saying that the coaches were shackling Dobbs and not opening things up enough for him to succeed.

You also keep attributing almost all of our passing struggles to the OL's poor pass blocking and poor job by the WRs.

Maybe, just maybe, the struggles of the OL, WR, and Dobbs himself to get on the same page had something to do with the coaches saying "let's keep it on the ground with Hurd/Kamara/Dobbs as much as possible and play to our strengths as much as possible."

If Dobbs had shown he could sling it around accurately, the OL had shown they can keep him upright doing it, and the WRs had shown they could be depended on to not waste a down when the other 2/3 of he play were clicking, I'm sure they'd have done it more.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

The great thing about the website cfbstats.com is I can call you out on BS like this.

Dobbs actually led the SEC in converting 3rd and medium (4-6 yards) as well as 3rd and long (7-9 yards) last season.

On plays of 3rd and 4-6 yards to go - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Player Leaders

- Dobbs was #1 in the SEC with 18 convertions (5 more than the second closest player Dak Prescott).

- Dobbs was 3rd in completion %.

On plays of 3rd and 7-9 yards to go - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Player Leaders

- Dobbs was once again #1 in the SEC with 16 convertions (5 more than the second closest player once again).

- Dobbs was 6th in the SEC in completion %.


You don't convert 34 3rd downs between 4-9 yards from screen passes. Give credit where credit is due. On 3rd downs, Dobbs balled out last year.

Dobbs is a great QB, but your obsession with him is psychotic :crazy:

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

For those who watched the game the numbers make sense. A lot of first down passes were long or deep passes where Dobbs struggles.
Most of 3rd down passes were either hitches or slants. Dobbs is much better with short passes. Stats can be misleading. Dobbs only had 5 INTs. That shows he is careful with football but not to mistake with 'accuracy in thowing'. He just threw a lot of slants and hitches.

And that's bad why? Isn't the point on 3rd down to keep the chains moving?

This point your trying to make literally boggles my mind.

Are you seriously finding fault in our QB being the BEST in the SEC at converting 3rd downs through the air?

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

And that's bad why? Isn't the point on 3rd down to keep the chains moving?

This point your trying to make literally boggles my mind.

Are you seriously finding fault in our QB being the BEST in the SEC at converting 3rd downs through the air?

Calm down, bro. No need to get so defensive about everything.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Lots of those passes were screens caught in the backfield. Basically a running play falling into a passing statistic.

Once again the stats don't bear that out. Dobbs converted more 3rd and medium (4-6 yards) and 3rd and longs (7-9 yards) than anyone in the SEC.

So it's FALSE to claim these were screens. You don't convert that many 3rd downs at those distances using screens.

Go back and watch the Kentucky and South Carolina games. That's where you will see Dobbs tearing apart those teams on 3rd down by throwing the ball DOWN THE FIELD.

Contrary to what your trying to imply, Josh was great throwing the ball DOWN THE FIELD on 3rd downs.

 

[utvolpj]

Once again the stats don't bear that out. Dobbs converted more 3rd and medium (4-6 yards) and 3rd and longs (7-9 yards) than anyone in the SEC.

So it's FALSE to claim these were screens. You don't convert that many 3rd downs at those distances using screens.

You haven't presented anything that really makes the statement false. A pass play of 9yds does not necessarily mean a pass of 9yds. The stats you're using don't answer the question

 

[Rishvol]

The great thing about the website cfbstats.com is I can call you out on BS like this.

Dobbs actually led the SEC in converting 3rd and medium (4-6 yards) as well as 3rd and long (7-9 yards) last season.

On plays of 3rd and 4-6 yards to go - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Player Leaders

- Dobbs was #1 in the SEC with 18 convertions (5 more than the second closest player Dak Prescott).

- Dobbs was 3rd in completion %.

On plays of 3rd and 7-9 yards to go - cfbstats.com - 2015 Southeastern Conference Player Leaders

- Dobbs was once again #1 in the SEC with 16 convertions (5 more than the second closest player once again).

- Dobbs was 6th in the SEC in completion %.


You don't convert 34 3rd downs between 4-9 yards from screen passes. Give credit where credit is due. On 3rd downs, Dobbs balled out last year.

He's right those little flare passes to Kamara, when he had a running start, went for 5-10 yards almost every time.