Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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#1,653
#1,653
Darth_Shiveman said:
That can be a bit of a misleading stat though (especially since it's been 3-5 man race for much of the primary). That means 39% have voted for him. Has a percentage that big voted for any other single candidate? More than 61% have voted against Cruz, that's for sure.

He and Kasich teaming up might be what it takes to put the nail in that coffin though. Maybe.
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The point is that no one has earned the nomination. This has happened before many times. In primaries like these a second, third, or maybe forth ballot will be necessary to select a nominee at the convention which means that, yes, someone besides Trump can be chosen legitimately. Anybody who has a problem with that must then logically also reject the Presidency of Abe Lincoln and Dwight D. Eisenhower among others.
 
#1,656
#1,656
Vols4us said:
Just reflecting on all this. Not a happy camper with any of them at the moment. You appear to deeply study the events of the past as well as the present in this area. So I am not trying to start anything, just curious about your take on it.

Let's pose another way of looking at your point - what if there were only Cruz and Trump, like the Dems have done it? Or what if it was Trump or Cruz versus Kasich? The Dems shut down any others. What if the vote had been consolidated very early in the process to two candidates? Would Cruz have picked up all of the other candidates votes - the 61% you point out? It seems to me Trump understood the GOP better than the GOP did. He charted a path based on what the majority of people clearly wanted for their country regardless of political persuasion while using his moderate to liberal roots in the blue states to move voters away from the Dems. He saw clearly that most people in this country do not want to be Europe or the progressive's one world order. So he used the populism route that was unavailable to existing GOP politicians.

Forget the lunacy of the polls of Clinton versus Trump and the hate Trump stuff for a moment. Those are meaningless until after the convention. Hillary is as flawed and uninspiring as they come. But the truth is no Bern/Hill voter is going to turn out and vote for a conservative Cruz. Only us conservatives did that. For Cruz to win will take the GOP/Trumpsters totally supporting him with the Dems remaining uninspired with Hillary. The Dems have always understood this. However, some of the less party faithful will vote for Trump or Kasich over the stink of Hill/Bern. Will the GOP voter be determined enough to fully support their nominated candidate? Will the conservative leaning voters fully support a Trump candidacy - which is the burning question in all this. The GOP establishment is showing no signs at all that they will.

The way this free for all has been played out appears like the party hinges their belief being correct that the average voter has the attention span of a ADHD child and that they will forget the mess leading up to the election and rally behind whoever ends up the candidate. Somehow I doubt that is going to happen when the GOP establishment elite are already talking about supporting Hillary 6 months before the general election.

Your thoughts?
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I think the actual party leadership will rally around whoever the candidate is. While some of the establishment will openly say they don't like Trump's style in the end they will carry his water just like Fox News has been. It's easy because they're used to abandoning their principles already. However, I do not believe the conservative, #NeverTrump wing of the base will be so easily persuaded. I think Trump will basically have to run as a Democrat in the general in hopes of stealing loads of Obama voters to counteract the loss of the Republican conservative base, which I fear is a lofty goal.

If Ted Cruz comes out of the convention the winner I think there will be many upset Trumpkins, but here again I believe the actual leadership would rally around their candidate no matter who it is. Admittedly, Cruz would lose a lot of Trumpkin votes in the general, but I believe those voters simply will not vote at all in protest. This will hurt some, but not as much as the #NeverTrump vote loss Trump would experience. The Trumpkin vote Cruz would lose is not necessarily comprised of Republican base voters. They're largely Democrats and independents. These are people who you can afford to lose as long as they don't instead vote for Hillary because they originally come from Hillary's base to start with. All it does is reduce her votes whether they stay home or vote Republican. On the flip side, however, I have a hard time seeing how a Republican can win without full support of the base in any scenario. You can't lose half your base and hope to win with the other side's voter base.
 
#1,659
#1,659
Poll: Trump Reaches 50 Percent Support Nationally for the First Time - NBC News

Do you guys not realize there's been several more candidates in the race? Of course he's going to get less when there are more people to vote for. Come on man...

But I thought Trump had a hard ceiling and that most republicans were against him. What's going on here? Could it be that republicans actually want Trump?
 
#1,661
#1,661
Skullbone said:
I think the actual party leadership will rally around whoever the candidate is. While some of the establishment will openly say they don't like Trump's style in the end they will carry his water just like Fox News has been. It's easy because they're used to abandoning their principles already. However, I do not believe the conservative, #NeverTrump wing of the base will be so easily persuaded. I think Trump will basically have to run as a Democrat in the general in hopes of stealing loads of Obama voters to counteract the loss of the Republican conservative base, which I fear is a lofty goal.

If Ted Cruz comes out of the convention the winner I think there will be many upset Trumpkins, but here again I believe the actual leadership would rally around their candidate no matter who it is. Admittedly, Cruz would lose a lot of Trumpkin votes in the general, but I believe those voters simply will not vote at all in protest. This will hurt some, but not as much as the #NeverTrump vote loss Trump would experience. The Trumpkin vote Cruz would lose is not necessarily comprised of Republican base voters. They're largely Democrats and independents. These are people who you can afford to lose as long as they don't instead vote for Hillary because they originally come from Hillary's base to start with. All it does is reduce her votes whether they stay home or vote Republican. On the flip side, however, I have a hard time seeing how a Republican can win without full support of the base in any scenario. You can't lose half your base and hope to win with the other side's voter base.
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Thanks for your view of things. :hi:
 
#1,662
#1,662
Catbone said:
Poll: Trump Reaches 50 Percent Support Nationally for the First Time - NBC News

Do you guys not realize there's been several more candidates in the race? Of course he's going to get less when there are more people to vote for. Come on man...

But I thought Trump had a hard ceiling and that most republicans were against him. What's going on here? Could it be that republicans actually want Trump?
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I believe about half of the establishment have already flipped in their minds at least. Some are playing the game until the final outcome of the primaries is known and they will go ahead and pledge allegiance.

That trial balloon Cruz/Kasich alliance exploded before they finished blowing the hot air into it. It actually had the opposite effect, which showed the desperation. After today it will probably get even sillier. They will keep moving the line in the sand state by state.
 
#1,663
#1,663
#1,666
#1,666
Catbone said:
Read the article. After "He may yet win the nomination because the system is in fact rigged, in his favor" I stopped. That's a flat lie and you know it.
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No it's not. You're representation is wrong and/or a lie itself. Donald Trump has more delegates than votes. If we allocated delegates purely on the vote he'd have 20% fewer delegates than he has now. He has benefitted more from the "rules" than anyone else. He just likes to lie and whine when he loses somewhere in order to incite anger in his ignorant fan base. Donald Trump didn't complain about the rules in Kentucky, Hawaii, or the Mariana Islands even though they were the same as the states he claims are rigged. He either is an incompetent rube who chose terrible advisors or he knew the rules and simply chose not to even try in difficult areas with the plan of blaming it on a rigged system. The fact is he just didn't participate. He chose to stay in the Fox News studios every day all day and rely on his celebrity status instead of investing in an actual Presidential ground campaign. He didn't show up and put the work in. Others did. It's been refuted time and time again as a matter of fact. At this point if a person still thinks the system was rigged against Donald there simply aren't enough facts in the world to change your mind. You're either ignorant of the facts or unwilling to acknowledge them. No self respecting academic can sit here and say the system was purposely rigged against Trump. It's a flat out, provable lie.
 
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#1,668
#1,668
I think I just saw someone die. Called 911. Pulling into my neighborhood, a car hit a motorcycle at a 4 way light. Dude had a helmet on but he's completely limp after rolling into a ditch. Holy crap.
 
#1,671
#1,671
Catbone said:
By the time I came home and went back, he was gone in an ambulance. Probably be hearing about his condition soon
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Good work cat, you might've saved a life today

Edit: this was sarcastic, but now that I read again, I'm guessing you didn't have a phone on you?

Check that, I'm hoping you didn't have a phone on you.
 
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#1,672
#1,672
Catbone said:
I think I just saw someone die. Called 911. Pulling into my neighborhood, a car hit a motorcycle at a 4 way light. Dude had a helmet on but he's completely limp after rolling into a ditch. Holy crap.
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You went home before you checked on the guy? Wtf was so important?
 
#1,675
#1,675
volfanngatorland said:
You went home before you checked on the guy? Wtf was so important?
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CatBone called 911. That is extremely important.

Not everyone can rush in and personally help in that situation. I understand that. I have seen ER docs freeze up in an actual emergency (not in their ER, at a campout)
 
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