To any Republicans not supporting Trump in the primaries...

#251
#251
ReaderVol said:
You can believe that and convince yourself of that. But the reality is either HRC or (most likely) Trump will be the next president. To think otherwise is absolutely foolish.
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So, because one of two candidates that I don't like is inevitably going to win, I should feel obligated to give him or her my vote?
 
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#252
#252
bamawriter said:
So, because one of two candidates that I don't like is inevitably going to win, I should feel obligated to give him or her my vote?
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If you have a choice to (paraphrasing you) get the lesser of 2 evils, would it not be the wiser decision to do so? If someone has you tied up and says they're going to punch you in the nose or stab you would you say I choose you shake my hand and let the inevitable happen?
 
#253
#253
ReaderVol said:
If you have a choice to (paraphrasing you) get the lesser of 2 evils, would it not be the wiser decision to do so? If someone has you tied up and says they're going to punch you in the nose or stab you would you say I choose you shake my hand and let the inevitable happen?
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Evil is Evil. When you are voting for the lesser of the 2 Evils you are still voting for Evil.
 
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#254
#254
ReaderVol said:
Trump is in favor of big government?
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He hasn't made any promises to cut entitlements that I can see. Our current course is unsustainable. His comments on healthcare are mixed - his released plan is pretty good but I'm wary of what else he wants to do based on what he's said in the past. He wants to deport 11 million people and build a wall that will cost billions. He's a protectionist. He has come out strongly against Apple and seems to be in favor of NSA spying. I like his sometimes non-interventionist stance on foreign policy, but then he advocates war crimes and sort of kills the mood.

Basically, he wants me to operate under the assumption that big government is OK as long as he's calling the shots because he'll appoint "great people" and knows what he's doing. He'll fix our problems by expanding the size of government. I can't say I agree.
 
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#255
#255
UTCVol said:
He hasn't made any promises to cut entitlements that I can see. Our current course is unsustainable. His comments on healthcare are mixed - his released plan is pretty good but I'm wary of what else he wants to do based on what he's said in the past. He wants to deport 11 million people and build a wall that will cost billions. He's a protectionist. He has come out strongly against Apple and seems to be in favor of NSA spying. I like his sometimes non-interventionist stance on foreign policy, but then he advocates war crimes and sort of kills the mood.

Basically, he wants me to operate under the assumption that big government is OK as long as he's calling the shots because he'll appoint "great people" and knows what he's doing. He'll fix our problems by expanding the size of government. I can't say I agree.
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He's called for major reduction or all out elimination of some federal agencies.
 
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#257
#257
ReaderVol said:
If you have a choice to (paraphrasing you) get the lesser of 2 evils, would it not be the wiser decision to do so?
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The lesser evil is still evil. I'd rather not choose evil.

I can't do anything about what the rest of the country will choose. But I can at least sleep at night knowing I went with my conscience.
 
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#258
#258
ReaderVol said:
As opposed to say a country like Brazil that has anywhere from 6 to 10 parties? How much better is Brazil than America? Or any other country for that matter?
Our system isn't perfect but what country is better?
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Comparing America to the rest of the world, the main distinction is that while other countries have multiple parties that primarily represent certain issues or ideologies, the GOP and the Dems are big tents. In other countries, the parties generally build coalitions to achieve a majority in the legislature, unless they can win it outright like the British Conservatives did last year. This helps generate turnout, as even smaller parties have the ability to participate in government - British turnout was 65-66% in 2015, while in 2008 it was only 58% here.

In order to achieve something like that here, it would take a profound shift in the moods of the people and special interests - so it will never happen. But it would be nice if we could cut up the cake a bit so that, for example, libertarians aren't aligning most closely with the party that advocates traditional marriage laws.
 
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#259
#259
ReaderVol said:
He's called for major reduction or all out elimination of some federal agencies.
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Yeah, 2 - the EPA and DoE. He was asked about it at one of the debates. I would like to see specifics on which aspects of which programs he would cut - "waste, fraud, and abuse" is a good buzz phrase, but it's light on detail. Cruz is better in that regard.

If that's balanced out by spending increases in other areas, it doesn't really matter. And with his tax plan he'll need to cut a lot more than he's saying. The dirty truth is that there aren't very many Americans who are actually fiscally conservative. Once you start talking about cutting the bell cow programs it gets very difficult.
 
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#261
#261
bamawriter said:
The lesser evil is still evil. I'd rather not choose evil.

I can't do anything about what the rest of the country will choose. But I can at least sleep at night knowing I went with my conscience.
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And you have that right. But it will make sure HRC wins. And she is a helluva lot worse than Trump.
 
#267
#267
bamawriter said:
The lesser evil is still evil. I'd rather not choose evil.

I can't do anything about what the rest of the country will choose. But I can at least sleep at night knowing I went with my conscience.
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This is really the crux of the matter. People either see it this way or the lesser of two anticipated evils.

The former is individualistic thinking the latter is social thinking.
 
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#268
#268
ReaderVol said:
Not a fan of W at all. But no way he was as bad as Obama.
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And that's the difference. You see them as fundamentally different while people who are voting third party, looking/considering third party, or staying home tend to view them as fundamentally the same. The same goes for HRC and Trump.
 
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#269
#269
ReaderVol said:
As opposed to say a country like Brazil that has anywhere from 6 to 10 parties? How much better is Brazil than America? Or any other country for that matter?
Our system isn't perfect but what country is better?
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Why do we need to compare? Our country is a cesspool of liberal decomposition. We are poorer, dumber, and more morally deficient than in any time in this countries history...
 
#270
#270
PKT_VOL said:
And that's the difference. You see them as fundamentally different while people who are voting third party, looking/considering third party, or staying home tend to view them as fundamentally the same. The same goes for HRC and Trump.
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Those who see them as the same are just wrong. An Orange and a banana are both fruit but they aren't the same thing by any means.
 
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