Making a Murderer (w/ Spoilers)

#502
#502
SamRebel35 said:
Yes.
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And, why would they do that? How do you account for Dassey saying Avery put it in his bedroom? Why was Avery's DNA on the key? Why did they need to do that when they had more than enough evidence? Is the fact they missed a key when they really didn't know what they were looking for difficult to fathom?
 
#503
#503
Sandvol said:
And, why would they do that?
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Because they wanted to bring the crime from some random part of the property to Avery's bedroom.

How do you account for Dassey saying Avery put it in his bedroom?
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Dassey made it up, or was fed the answer. Dassey said Avery put it in a drawer. It wasn't in a drawer when it was found. Why would Avery move it?

Why was Avery's DNA on the key?
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He probably handled it when he moved the car. Why was Halbach's DNA not found on the key?

Why did they need to do that when they had more than enough evidence?
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Maybe they didn't think they had enough. At that moment they had very little that tied the crime to Steven Avery.

Is the fact they missed a key when they really didn't know what they were looking for difficult to fathom?
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A key that was found in plain sight on the 4th search of the room? If you don't find that difficult to fathom then you don't have a sceptical bone in your body.
 
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#504
#504
So,
1. The on-scene officer or one of the immediate responders snatched the key from the vehicle with multiple witnesses present.(From police reports the key was not in the vehicle so someone must have snatched it.)
2. Held onto the key and somehow wiped it free of Halbach's DNA, kept their DNA off of it, and swabbed it with Avery's DNA.
3. Waited for months to plant the key knowing that the longer they waited the more likelihood the defense attorneys would question it. Or they did plant it earlier but it still didn't turn up on multiple searches, oh wait couldn't have happened.
4. Planted the key without alerting any of the other officers. Oh, wait, they were all in on it.
5. Got Dassey to confess that Avery put the key in his bedroom.

Or, is it more likely,
1. Avery killed her.
2. Put the RAV4 in his back lot.
3. Kept the key after he used it to move the RAV4 which is why his DNA was on it.
4. Police missed it on multiple searches because Avery had crammed it into a bookcase beside his desk with books and papers and other objects covering it. It was only a single key on a key ring so understandable.
5.It fell out after multiple searches when the police tilted the case.
 
#505
#505
The key was found days later, not months. You are confusing it with the bullet, which was found 4 months after the crime.

And, as I've pointed out before, and you've consistently ignored, the key was found by a Manitowoc County cop. The same Manitowoc County cops who were supposed to be providing only material, not investigative, support so as to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest.
 
#506
#506
bamawriter said:
Because they wanted to bring the crime from some random part of the property to Avery's bedroom.
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Unnecessary, they had the remains in the pit, her remains and belongings in the burn barrel, his blood and her blood in the RAV 4, all the other circumstantial evidence that Avery lured her there.

Dassey made it up, or was fed the answer. Dassey said Avery put it in a drawer. It wasn't in a drawer when it was found. Why would Avery move it?
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He said that Avery put it in his middle drawer on his dresser but Avery could have easily removed it multiple times and probably kept it close to try to quickly move the vehicle when he got a chance. Easily explained.

He probably handled it when he moved the car. Why was Halbach's DNA not found on the key?
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Usually with touch DNA it is last person who handled the item whose DNA is most dominant. He probably handled it multiple times when and after he moved the RAV4.



Maybe they didn't think they had enough. At that moment they had very little that tied the crime to Steven Avery.
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They had her remains in the pit behind his house. They had all the phone calls. They had his and her blood on the RAV4. They had his DNA on the hood latch.

A key that was found in plain sight on the 4th search of the room? If you don't find that difficult to fathom then you don't have a sceptical bone in your body.
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No, not difficult at all. Have you ever misplaced your keys? Have you ever had difficulty finding a key especially when it was only a single key on a key ring? Evidence gets overlooked routinely and often new evidence pops up in a case on multiple examinations. The officer said it popped out after shaking the book case. Not unfathomable. Especially when there is zero evidence other than the lawyers' unfounded assertion.
 
#507
#507
bamawriter said:
The key was found days later, not months. You are confusing it with the bullet, which was found 4 months after the crime.

And, as I've pointed out before, and you've consistently ignored, the key was found by a Manitowoc County cop. The same Manitowoc County cops who were supposed to be providing only material, not investigative, support so as to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest.
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Ok still the same argument applies whether 8 days or several months. Yes Mantiowoc County was ordered to stay away but still all the arguments above apply.
 
#508
#508
Sandvol said:
So,
1. The on-scene officer or one of the immediate responders snatched the key from the vehicle with multiple witnesses present.(From police reports the key was not in the vehicle so someone must have snatched it.)
2. Held onto the key and somehow wiped it free of Halbach's DNA, kept their DNA off of it, and swabbed it with Avery's DNA.
3. Waited for months to plant the key knowing that the longer they waited the more likelihood the defense attorneys would question it. Or they did plant it earlier but it still didn't turn up on multiple searches, oh wait couldn't have happened.
4. Planted the key without alerting any of the other officers. Oh, wait, they were all in on it.
5. Got Dassey to confess that Avery put the key in his bedroom.
Click to expand...

So many things have to fall into place perfectly for this scheme to work. Very low odds.

Or, is it more likely,
1. Avery killed her.
2. Put the RAV4 in his back lot.
3. Kept the key after he used it to move the RAV4 which is why his DNA was on it.
4. Police missed it on multiple searches because Avery had crammed it into a bookcase beside his desk with books and papers and other objects covering it. It was only a single key on a key ring so understandable.
5.It fell out after multiple searches when the police tilted the case.
Click to expand...

Nothing has to fall into place for this scenario to work.
 
#509
#509
Sandvol said:
Ok still the same argument applies whether 8 days or several months. Yes Mantiowoc County was ordered to stay away but still all the arguments above apply.
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They were ordered to stay away, but didn't, and they were the ones who found several key pieces of evidence well into the investigation. While I have no hard evidence of a conspiracy, if one doesn't think that seems fishy, then one is way too trusting.
 
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#511
#511
bamawriter said:
They were ordered to stay away, but didn't, and they were the ones who found several key pieces of evidence well into the investigation. While I have no hard evidence of a conspiracy, if one doesn't think that seems fishy, then one is way too trusting.
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Defense attorneys sure think so and so does Netflix.
 
#514
#514
bamawriter said:
I have some issues with the bullet. I'm getting close to that part of the trial, so I'll save my thoughts until I'm past that.
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Let me help you with the bullet. Get a 22 bullet (the lead projectile) cut it in half, smash it with a hammer, and have someone throw it in a garage. Then see if you can find it. Make sure it is a cluttered and dirty garage too.
 
#515
#515
Sandvol said:
So, what other evidence was planted?
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If one piece of evidence is planted, it doesn't take a huge leap to conclude that it all could have potentially been planted. Manitowoc screwed this up big time. Every piece of damming evidence was found by them when they shouldn't have been investigating. The procedures are in place for a reason. Follow them or risk allowing a potential killer going free. Avery, a potential Killer, should be free right now. And he will soon be free again because this is all going to blow up on Mantiowoc's face for their incompetence and corruption.
 
#516
#516
Sandvol said:
Let me help you with the bullet. Get a 22 bullet (the lead projectile) cut it in half, smash it with a hammer, and have someone throw it in a garage. Then see if you can find it. Make sure it is a cluttered and dirty garage too.
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You forgot to mention to smash it through someone's skull without getting a microgram of blood or brain matter on it.
 
#518
#518
SamRebel35 said:
If one piece of evidence is planted, it doesn't take a huge leap to conclude that it all could have potentially been planted. Manitowoc screwed this up big time. Every piece of damming evidence was found by them when they shouldn't have been investigating. The procedures are in place for a reason. Follow them or risk allowing a potential killer going free. Avery, a potential Killer, should be free right now. And he will soon be free again because this is all going to blow up on Mantiowoc's face for their incompetence and corruption.
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But we haven't really found one piece of evidence where the better and more probable explanation is the prosecution's assertion.
 
#519
#519
one quarter inch in diameter and blends well with all the other crap on his garage floor:
 

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#521
#521
Sandvol whats your take on the Avery rape case?Do you think the pd really thought Avery did it?
 
#525
#525
rush1228 said:
Sandvol whats your take on the Avery rape case?Do you think the pd really thought Avery did it?
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I think the retired Sheriff thought he was involved somehow but goes to show you intelligence of police. I think most of them reluctantly believed they had gotten the wrong man. Avery was exonerated because a pubic hair from the victim's rape kit implicated Allen who was a known sex offender. And, the victim said there was only one assailant. To believe it could have been Avery you would have to believe one of two things: (1) either Avery's pubic area came into contact with Allen's pubic area before the rape, or (2) someone tampered with the rape kit years later. Neither highly likely.
 
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