'16 AZ DE Jonathan Kongbo UT Signee 2/3/16

#551
#551
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You do know both things can be true. We can still have depth issues and cutting those guys loose could still be the right move.

Maybe the guys who left just aren't good enough? I personally have no problem freeing up scholarships for better players in upcoming years.
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Well if FR can't be expected to add quality, ideal depth then constantly cutting SO for FR leaves you in a self fulfilling prophecy of no depth. Those would-be SO's never become JR's and SR's.
 
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#552
#552
butchna said:
Latroy Lewis and Corey Vereen played better than the transfers (of whom's posters you weepingly listen to Sarah McLachlan songs over) you wax on about. Those are upperclassmen btw. :wink2:
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And the transfer would STILL represent the experienced depth behind those guys that Jones said was necessary before we could expect the Vols to compete for championships. The abnormally high attrition STILL hurt the progress of the rebuild.
 
#553
#553
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You do know both things can be true. We can still have depth issues and cutting those guys loose could still be the right move.
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Sure. But these three things cannot be true. The two you mentioned and more than half of those scholarship offers being wise use of limited class space.

Even if it was the right thing to do, there is "opportunity costs" to Jones and the program. Whether they left for conduct, personal reasons, or because they weren't talented enough... those were still slots you could have gotten contributors with. So you answer, "Well, you are going to miss some". Absolutely true. But you cannot miss twice as many as the coaches you are competing with.

Maybe the guys who left just aren't good enough? I personally have no problem freeing up scholarships for better players in upcoming years.
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See above. But you do realize those players in upcoming years will then be asked to provide depth early and often as Fr, right?

So again, you can't legitimately complain about not having depth and experience when you say high attrition is OK.
 
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#554
#554
Probably_in_Class said:
You don't build depth with bad players. The reality is that players move on from every program. If the attrition had been so abnormal last offseason, you would've seen headlines on more than just VN. The truth is, no one but us took notice cause it wasn't remarkable at all. Kiffin's class had attrition issues. For Jones, it's not alarming at all that some players in huge classes moved on from UT.
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Not all of them were bad players... and some of the ones that were had to be the product of bad evaluations, right?

This isn't an argument if UT's attrition is around the SEC average. It isn't.

It is "alarming" if players from huge classes move on with great opportunities for playing time sitting in front of them. Hendrix was going to play. Helm was going to play. Scott was likely to play. Wharton at least from an athletic standpoint would have been nice to have had around when WR's were dropping like flies.

I think it is fair if you want to say the '13 class was more high risk due to Jones having to build it so quickly following Dooley. Dooley quit recruiting somewhere around mid-season if not before. But out of the 8 players already gone from that class, the above players at least had the potential to contribute. If those guys had not left... UT's attrition would have been around the SEC avg or maybe a tad better.
 
#555
#555
sjt18 said:
And the transfer would STILL represent the experienced depth behind those guys that Jones said was necessary before we could expect the Vols to compete for championships. The abnormally high attrition STILL hurt the progress of the rebuild.
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Attrition is necessary to a rebuild. Alabama's rate of attrition was just as high during Saban's first two years. They over signed just like us and also abused the medical hardship waiver unlike us. Spring practice was basically a tryout for many of their fringe players. Aside from Hendrix, all of the players who have left here were easily replaced and none of those losses impacted depth.
 
#556
#556
BTW, someone suggested that Velus Jones might commit to UT. IMO, that would be a very big addition to this class.

Need some safety help though.
 
#558
#558
Probably_in_Class said:
You don't build depth with bad players. The reality is that players move on from every program. If the attrition had been so abnormal last offseason, you would've seen headlines on more than just VN. The truth is, no one but us took notice cause it wasn't remarkable at all. Kiffin's class had attrition issues. For Jones, it's not alarming at all that some players in huge classes moved on from UT.
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The difference is Bama, LSU, AU, UGA, OSU etc aren't rebuilding rosters/programs. Attrition can be afforded more easily because those programs aren't relying on 15-20 FR to begin with.
 
#559
#559
BowlBrother85 said:
Attrition is necessary to a rebuild. Alabama's rate of attrition was just as high during Saban's first two years. They over signed just like us and also abused the medical hardship waiver unlike us. Spring practice was basically a tryout for many of their fringe players. Aside from Hendrix, all of the players who have left here were easily replaced and none of those losses impacted depth.
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How many guys who left in the 1st 2 years were Saban's recruits and not fringe holdovers who saw the writing on the wall? The crazy thing is our attrition as occurred from Butch's recruits while the "less talented" Dooley recruits have stuck around.
 
#560
#560
sjt18 said:
BTW, someone suggested that Velus Jones might commit to UT. IMO, that would be a very big addition to this class.

Need some safety help though.
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Fort said he is hearing Oklahoma lean, hope he is hearing wrong though.
Thought it was odd to since Azzani just visited Velus Jones.
 
#561
#561
sjt18 said:
And the transfer would STILL represent the experienced depth behind those guys that Jones said was necessary before we could expect the Vols to compete for championships. The abnormally high attrition STILL hurt the progress of the rebuild.
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Shy fell...we covered...Maggitt gone?...Vereen was playing as well or better by the middle of the season. We had four quality running backs. Marcus Jackson never played? Guards weren't a weak spot. (Even with Jashon gimpy all season). Sounds strangely similar like depth to me. :question: You keep whining we keep getting more talented. :loco: Gotta be hell on your old abacus. :lol:
 
#562
#562
butchna said:
Shy fell...we covered...Maggitt gone?...Vereen was playing as well or better by the middle of the season. We had four quality running backs. Marcus Jackson never played? Guards weren't a weak spot. (Even with Jashon gimpy all season). Sounds strangely similar like depth to me. :question: You keep whining we keep getting more talented. :loco: Gotta be hell on your old abacus. :lol:
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Maggit gone next year, Jackson gone next year. The former 2's are now the permanent 1's. So who fills in behind? FR? Then we hear how many FR are still having to play.
 
#563
#563
You do realize that had those guys not been "processed" we would only have room for 10-12 guys in this class. The coaches took some guys because they had room knowing several of them wouldn't make it. This isn't something that is perpetual. It is a product of the poor roster they inherited. I guess you would rather boot out 4th and 5th year seniors to stay under the 85 limit.

Schools can sign up 25 per year, which is 100 scholarships over four years. Add another 5-8 RS Sr's and that's a total of 20-23 extra scholarships or 5-6 scholarships per year. That's assuming you are graduating around 20 seniors each year, but Butch has had graduating classes of

2013: 17
2014: 13
2015: 12

since he has been here. Furthermore, your argument is simply speculation based on the fact that the Butch's first class just finished their third year. It's absolutely not an excuse next year, but it was the truth this year. Anything more than a cursory glance at the numbers would tell you that.
 
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#564
#564
bowlinggreenvol said:
Maggit gone next year, Jackson gone next year. The former 2's are now the permanent 1's. So who fills in behind? FR? Then we hear how many FR are still having to play.
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Redshirt freshmen are the new sophomores! Taylor,Butcher and Boulware...get on board Eeyore! :)
 
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#565
#565
butchna said:
Redshirt freshmen are the new sophomores! Taylor,Butcher and Boulware...get on board Eeyore! :)
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Well they don't have any stats. Surely they didn't gain any experience. Remember, a year in the weight room and scheme doesn't help. At least according to you it wouldn't have for Hendrix and Helm because they didn't contribute as true FR.
 
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#568
#568
bowlinggreenvol said:
Well they don't have any stats. Surely they didn't gain any experience. Remember, a year in the weight room and scheme doesn't help. At least according to you it wouldn't have for Hendrix and Helm because they didn't contribute as true FR.
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No they don't have any stats. But Jack Jones sure does and either he or Weisman will be a backup next year barring injury. Vickers will probably be a backup and hes better than what we had for a starter 3 years ago. McDowell would probably play for any SEC team except for Bama. Either Phillips or Vereen will be a backup next year. Do you want me to go on??
 
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#569
#569
sonofUT62 said:
No they don't have any stats. But Jack Jones sure does and either he or Weisman will be a backup next year barring injury. Vickers will probably be a backup and hes better than what we had for a starter 3 years ago. McDowell would probably play for any SEC team except for Bama. Either Phillips or Vereen will be a backup next year. Do you want me to go on??
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This was a poke at butchna. But sure go on; I don't know our roster.
 
#574
#574
bowlinggreenvol said:
Well they don't have any stats. Surely they didn't gain any experience. Remember, a year in the weight room and scheme doesn't help. At least according to you it wouldn't have for Hendrix and Helm because they didn't contribute as true FR.
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They PLAYED and didn't contribute. :w00t: Absolute good riddance. Bet these kids do a twofer. Play and contribute! Butch makes this crap look easy! :clapping:
 
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