Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXII

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#7,751
#7,751
VolGee4 said:
Saban? Spurrier? Bielema? Miles had 4 years at a power 5 school.

Mason and Stoops had no HC experience, and at this point, they have been disappointments. Mullen ended up being a good hire with no HC experience, but he was even criticized after having mediocre years in his 3rd and 4th years. He has only had one team with an above .500 conference record in 6 years.
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Saban had less. So did Miles.
 
#7,755
#7,755
vol2002 said:
Coach Pinkel has lost at least 6 games twice in 4 years in the SEC. Is he a bad coach?
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Pinkel is a great example of an established head coach "learning to win in the SEC." It is the best explanation for the difference between his first year in the SEC and his subsequent success. And yes, it only took him a year, but he also came into the league with years already invested his program to establish his system and recruit and develop players that fit his system. Thus, he would have required a shorter learning curve.
 
#7,757
#7,757
chavisut said:
Saban had less. So did Miles.
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Saban had 12 years of HC experience- 1 at Toledo, 5 at MSU, 5 at LSU, and 1 with the Dolphins. Am I missing something? That is twice as much as Butch and at 3 high level jobs.

Edit: maybe you are considering when he was hired at LSU. He still had 6 and 5 at a power 5 school.
 
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#7,758
#7,758
chavisut said:
Actually, most current SEC coaches had less HC experience when they took their jobs. Maybe all of them outside of Pinkel.
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Don't discount the value of being a coordinator at a high profile program, which almost all of them were.

In fact, Butch's career trajectory is unusual in that he has no high profile coordinator experience at all. He was in a small pond for a significant number of years during his coaching career. Two seasons at WVU as WR coach were the extent of his P5 experience until he was hired by Cincinnati, and even then he only spent three years there (and it's not exactly the big leagues).

Look at the other mid-major guys who received/are about to receive big-time jobs.

Charlie Strong was DC at UF. Tom Herman was OC at OSU. Kingsbury was OC at A&M. Fuente was OC at TCU. McElwain was OC at Bama. Even James Franklin was OC at Kansas State and Maryland before getting hired at Vandy. Those are important years for future head coaches.

I would argue that Butch's three years at CMU were less valuable for him than being a coordinator at a major program for the same length of time would have been.

Butch is the definition of a CEO coach. He's a motivator, he's a recruiter, he's a team-builder. But he's not much of an Xs and Os guy, and that's why we've struggled a bit during his first three seasons. He can't just outscheme the opposition on a weekly basis. He has to rely on getting his players to play over their heads.

It will be interesting to see how he does when he has a talent advantage over almost every team he plays. He has yet to lose a game against a team that he out-talented by any appreciable margin (and Vandy 2013 doesn't count, considering all WRs were hurt in that game and Dobbs was the 4th string QB).
 
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#7,759
#7,759
VolGee4 said:
Saban had 12 years of HC experience- 1 at Toledo, 5 at MSU, 5 at LSU, and 1 with the Dolphins. Am I missing something? That is twice as much as Butch and at 3 high level jobs.
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My mistake, I forgot he was at Toledo. So he had the same when he FIRST arrived in the SEC.
 
#7,760
#7,760
Not that he needs anyone to come to his defense, but chavis is a very reliable and realistic poster and has been for years.

Nothing he is saying here is untrue, imo.
 
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#7,761
#7,761
InVOLuntary said:
The only thing that worries me is that both those teams can stretch the field, our Vols not so much. It's amazing to me that we were able to rush the ball against Mizz with virtually no vertical passing attack.
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That was because of that bad offensive line that gives up all of those sacks. They had to run. Oh wait...

:)
 
#7,762
#7,762
Aesius makes a lot of good points, per usual. Honestly, we could go in circles about this.

My main point was he has plenty of HC experience.
 
#7,766
#7,766
Chavis despises Butch being our head coach, and wants him fired as soon as possible. That is a fact IMO, based on the mountain of negative "truisms" he posts.
 
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#7,768
#7,768
This site has caused me to subconsciously start using the phrase, "dumpster fire," in every-day conversation--on topics ranging from politics, other football programs, to the effects of last night's Mexican food. So from the bottom of my heart, thank y'all for helping me more properly express myself.
 
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#7,769
#7,769
I think most can agree on the top 4 SEC teams.

1)Bama (10-1)
2)Ole Miss (8-3)
3)Florida (10-1)
4)Miss State (8-3)

But... Who is 5th-9th through 11 games?

Tennessee (7-4) best win: Georgia
worst loss: Arkansas
Arkansas (6-5) best win: Ole Miss
worst loss: Toledo
Texas AM (8-3) best win: Miss State
worst loss: Auburn
LSU (7-3) best win: Florida
worst loss: Arkansas
UGA (8-3) best win: Auburn
worst loss: Tennessee
 
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#7,773
#7,773
Catbone said:
I think most can agree on the top 4 SEC teams.

1)Bama (10-1)
2)Ole Miss (8-3)
3)Florida (10-1)
4)Miss State (8-3)

But... Who is 5th-9th through 11 games?

Tennessee (7-4) best win: Georgia
worst loss: Arkansas
Arkansas (6-5) best win: Ole Miss
worst loss: Toledo
Texas AM (8-3) best win: Miss State
worst loss: Auburn
LSU (7-3) best win: Florida
worst loss: Arkansas
UGA (8-3) best win: Auburn
worst loss: Tennessee
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Two of LSU, A&M, Ole Miss, and Miss St will finish with 4 losses. Georgia will end up with 9 wins despite everyone knowing they suck.
 
#7,775
#7,775
Catbone said:
I think most can agree on the top 4 SEC teams.

1)Bama (10-1)
2)Ole Miss (8-3)
3)Florida (10-1)
4)Miss State (8-3)

But... Who is 5th-9th through 11 games?

Tennessee (7-4) best win: Georgia
worst loss: Arkansas
Arkansas (6-5) best win: Ole Miss
worst loss: Toledo
Texas AM (8-3) best win: Miss State
worst loss: Auburn
LSU (7-3) best win: Florida
worst loss: Arkansas
UGA (8-3) best win: Auburn
worst loss: Tennessee
Click to expand...

-We lost by one, 4, 5, and tied at end of regulation in other loss. LSU lost by more combined in just one of their's, and all 3 by double digits.
-We beat Georgia
-Arkansas has 5 losses
-A&M lost to Auburn, otherwise they aren't even bowling.
Vols should be 4th behind winner of Egg bowl.

Just making our case, who knows, but I think we could beat any of these teams except Bama as good as they're playing right now, and I think Florida is there because they did actually win the games, but they're probably not in the top 4 teams in the SEC.
 
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