Butch says it takes 6 to 7 years to build a program in the SEC

BTW, VFL-82, all these hypothetical games end in a tie...

Daj is the SEC Dungeon Master. He's got the rolling four year recruiting averages and the 12-sided die. That's a dodecahedron to Josh Dobbs.

Yes, they do. I drew them that way. So that the focus would be on the flow of the game rather than the end point. Because at the end, they're all identical. And that is the point.

Other than now knowing that you played dungeons and dragons at some point in your life, I'm not sure what your second paragraph is meant to share. :)
 
I would eat crow, but that day will almost certainly never come. This year was the best chance...It's only going to get harder from here.

BTW, "this year was the best chance" for a run at the SEC and beyond? That's certainly far from decided.

Before this season started, most folks believed 2016 was going to be the first great chance at a run for the SEC. Doyle and I, and a few others, kept noting that every year from 2015 on would be potential championship years...but most thought 2016 was a more realistic chance.

So no idea why you now believe that Butch just shot his last best chance to get to Atlanta. That doesn't seem to make much sense, even to folks with the same outlook Doyle and I were sharing.
 
I would eat crow, but that day will almost certainly never come. This year was the best chance, and he absolutely **** himself. I genuinely hope we dump Butch (or he runs away) before he squanders all the talent he has recruited here so far. It's only going to get harder from here.

Funny how most people saw 2016 as the year UT makes a real push for the title. But you sir are so much smarter than others. Honored to read your brilliance. You should really think about starting a pay site. Hell, you'd be rich in no time.
 
BTW, "this year was the best chance" for a run at the SEC and beyond? That's certainly far from decided.

Before this season started, most folks believed 2016 was going to be the first great chance at a run for the SEC. Doyle and I, and a few others, kept noting that every year from 2015 on would be potential championship years...but most thought 2016 was a more realistic chance.

So no idea why you now believe that Butch just shot his last best chance to get to Atlanta. That doesn't seem to make much sense, even to folks with the same outlook Doyle and I were sharing.

The East was complete garbage this year. Which, by the way, is the main reason Florida is going to Atlanta.
 
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Funny how most people saw 2016 as the year UT makes a real push for the title.

And yet, when 2016 is a disappointment, people will be arguing that Botch needs more time because Dooley/stability/we're cursed/etc.

We're literally to the point where we're hoping Georgia and South Carolina butch their upcoming coaching searches. You know, the Tennessee way.
 
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We were clearly more talented than Florida and Arkansas.

That's not looking at a spreadsheet, although 99gator has even done that for us. That's looking at the real world outside the back door. You say Florida is supposed to be more talented than us. Maybe that would be the case if the rival rankings over the last four years could still be weighted equally.

Your model says we are more talented than Oklahoma. I'm willing to say we were pretty even against them. Which means, Butch clearly majorly underperformed to allow them to win the game!

The model says Georgia has more talent than us. It's not clear to me, and it's especially not clear when the most important member of their football team - the QB - is also the biggest question mark on the team. Throw in they lost their best player overall on the first play of the game, and I think the model prediction is very much in question.

I certainly have no problem with the idea that talent is the most important factor in determining the outcome of college football games. I would say it's almost infallible with teams of different quintiles.

However, we are talking about a model that is a third wrong. Where? If it is nearly infallible between teams of different quintiles, where does it fall over?

Clearly within quintiles.

I'll be honest, daj. You're in a place that I've been for a long time. Does a democratic society have any meaning in a data driven world? If the "veracity of the data" can't be argued, then democracy has no meaning. We should let the 10 best technocrats run the whole show. We shouldn't even play these games. We should roll the 12-sided dungeon and dragons dice and assign the most talented team numbers 1 - 8. Or 1 - 4 and 9 - 12. It's all the same. Keep in mind too, all this "data" is absolutely subjective. It's good subjective data, but guess what, F = G m1*m2 / r^2 is just an approximation as well.

You're actually not far off on the evaluation of Oklahoma and UT, as I have said the same thing as well.

The numbers should UT as being slightly more talented than Oklahoma, but a more specific break down shows that the teams are very close to mirrors of each other.

You're repeating the same issues over and over. I have dealt with each in turn. I've stated, consistently, that UT has more talent than Arkansas and that game should have been a UT win. UT is less talented than UGA, and that game should have been a UT loss. 1 + -1 is a zero. That is a wash. Similarly, Florida (regardless of what you want to believe, and what other fans tell you) is a considerably talented team. They are the most talented team in the SEC east. The fact that Muschamp made them look so bad is what is making Mac look so good.

If you want to believe that Mac is a great coach, consider that (and im going from memory, I haven't looked at his numbers since he was hired) he has never over-performed in relation to talent, and in fact has slightly under-performed to what his talent would suggest every year as coach. He has also never had a team as talented in the aggregate as he has now, nor has he had a team as talented in relation to his competition as he has now. It isn't like he has consistently over performed and is doing so now, he has consistently met expectations with his talent at best, and that is exactly what he is doing now.

As to your last paragraph. I don't even know what to say. This is simple statistics, not the philosophy of self governance. You can understand the predictability of systems and still sit in wonder at the times the system fails. It seems that you are saying that while seat belts are statistically proven to save lives, you would prefer to take the risk lest you give up your God given right to smash your head on the windshield.
 
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And yet, when 2016 is a disappointment, people will be arguing that Botch needs more time because Dooley/stability/we're cursed/etc.

We're literally to the point where we're hoping Georgia and South Carolina butch their upcoming coaching searches. You know, the Tennessee way.

And yet, if 2016 is a major accomplishment, you and the other rickybobbys will talk about how the East sucks blah, blah, blah. It wont be because Tennessee is good, it will be just because everyone else is bad. Butch will get all the blame for losses and absolutely zero credit for wins. Just like I am sure if we win our bowl game this year, same thing will be said. Oh the team we beat is not very good. I bet you said the same thing about Iowa. I mean they are clearly not very good.

No, you and the other rickybobbys are the ones hoping for crappy coaches at SC and UGA. I want both of those programs to get big name hires. Bring on Fuente and whoever else wants to come.
 
And yet, if 2016 is a major accomplishment, you and the other rickybobbys will talk about how the East sucks blah, blah, blah. It wont be because Tennessee is good, it will be just because everyone else is bad. Butch will get all the blame for losses and absolutely zero credit for wins. Just like I am sure if we win our bowl game this year, same thing will be said. Oh the team we beat is not very good. I bet you said the same thing about Iowa. I mean they are clearly not very good.

No, you and the other rickybobbys are the ones hoping for crappy coaches at SC and UGA. I want both of those programs to get big name hires. Bring on Fuente and whoever else wants to come.

Iowa is garbage.
 
Yes, they do. I drew them that way. So that the focus would be on the flow of the game rather than the end point. Because at the end, they're all identical. And that is the point.

Other than now knowing that you played dungeons and dragons at some point in your life, I'm not sure what your second paragraph is meant to share. :)

You commented earlier that I am tied for 5th in the pick-em contest. It's too early to celebrate that, but I should say that the only game I have actually watched this year is the UT v. UGA game, and that was from inside Neyland. I have listened to the remaining UT games on the radio, and haven't watched more than a few seconds worth (literally) of the combined games from the rest of the season. It's amazing when people say "you don't watch football" as some sort of proof that watching the game makes one knowledgeable. From where I sit, you could watch no football and do better at understanding the game than many on here.

Beyond that, for the first 3-4 weeks, I picked without checking the numbers. I did that to my own detriment.
 
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True. But some want to believe he walked into a program that was in the tank like we were. Thats factually incorrect and asinine.
Don't you know all things are always equal. Saban or J Mac could restart football aat UAB and in year 3 they'd win the national title because they're good coaches. 3 years is all a coach ever needs.
 
The problem with numbers, and I can only speak to Florida here....is that they don't show what's going on.

If I have a class of 25 and 18 are still at the school, then you are factoring in 7 players who aren't even on the team. In addition, it doesn't account for people who clearly don't match their ranking.

Jeff Driskel was a 5 star recruit. At some point, he stops being a 5 star high school player and becomes/became a bad college quarterback.

So, if you look at Florida's recruiting some of the rankings look great. But, there are busts and transfers all over the place.

It's great that Thomas Holley and Gerald Willis were 5 star defensive tackles. One is no longer in school and the other may never see the field due to medical reasons.

There is more to analysis than numbers. You have to look beyond those numbers
 
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Yes ...you're safe. :).

Saban was able to use John Parker Wilson,Andre Smith, Mike McCoy, DJ Hall,Antoine Caldwell,Justin Britt and Greg McElroy on offense to some effect. On defense Javier Arenas was pretty good...Wallace Gilberry is still playing in the NFL, Justin Woodall started for the first championship team, Marquise Johnson started from his junior year on...those are the ones I "researched"...errybody else was the shiznit! (Made that up :wink2:). Saban added lots of talent really fast but he had a better starting framework than Butch...hope this helped. :hi:

Oops quoted myself. :)
 
The problem with numbers, and I can only speak to Florida here....is that they don't show what's going on.

If I have a class of 25 and 18 are still at the school, then you are factoring in 7 players who aren't even on the team. In addition, it doesn't account for people who clearly don't match their ranking.

Jeff Driskel was a 5 star recruit. At some point, he stops being a 5 star high school player and becomes/became a bad college quarterback.

So, if you look at Florida's recruiting some of the rankings look great. But, there are busts and transfers all over the place.

It's great that Thomas Holley and Gerald Willis were 5 star defensive tackles. One is no longer in school and the other may never see the field due to medical reasons.

There is more to analysis than numbers. You have to look beyond those numbers

It's so ridiculous that we have Gator fans saying this and some of our fans refuse to accept this.
 
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It's so ridiculous that we have Gator fans saying this and some of our fans refuse to accept this.

It's ridiculous that Vols fans are slurping Gator fans just to try to prove a point. Think 99Gator has anything invested in propping up his coach? :)
 
True. But some want to believe he walked into a program that was in the tank like we were. Thats factually incorrect and asinine.

From a roster stand point he didn't start where Jones did, no. He's also in his first season where typically the change over is normally not very smooth.

But he has taken a team that was trash on the field just months ago and changed that in one season. Most that gloss over that are easily as asinine.
 
From a roster stand point he didn't start where Jones did, no. He's also in his first season where typically the change over is normally not very smooth.

But he has taken a team that was trash on the field just months ago and changed that in one season. Most that gloss over that are easily as asinine.

Remember Malzahn?
 
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