Ukraine Protests

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#7,701
#7,701
A Russian soldier keeps getting Russian combat awards while in Ukraine when Russian soldiers are not fighting in Ukraine....supposedly.

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#7,703
#7,703
Velo Vol said:
If, as you ridiculously claim, Russian troops are not coming over the border, then why isn't the OSCE monitoring it today?
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I'm certain that Russians are coming across the border, but it's not Russian regulars who are enlisted at thè present time. These are mercenaries and freelancers that have done time in the Russian military IMO.
 
#7,705
#7,705
Pacer92 said:
I'm certain that Russians are coming across the border, but it's not Russian regulars who are enlisted at thè present time. These are mercenaries and freelancers that have done time in the Russian military IMO.
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So all of these shiny new tanks and APC's as well as small arms only made by Russia finding their way into Ukraine are from mercs? I didn't know Putin allowed soldiers to retire with full kit and armor. Must be nice to muster out with your own Strela. And I guess all of those NGO's based in Russia of moms talking about their active duty sons just going off the grid and winding up in Ukraine is just all a CIA plot as well. Nothing to see here.

The group that took the Donetsk airport was composed of two groups - Chechen Kadyrovites which is an active duty military unit and then Russian marines based in Murmansk as identified by their whole unit gear, uniform, patches, etc. I really cannot imagine entire units with all of their uniforms and armed to the teeth are all just finding their way hundreds of miles away together to fight in another country. You have 90% of the country that cannot scrape together decent gear, ammo, supplies, armor, transport, etc. and the invaders that seem to have an unlimited supply. The excuse of captured equipment expired months ago. Logistically, this whole random volunteer/freelance nonsense is impossible at this point. It could have been possible as a scenario last year but now? Amazing how major pushes by these groups coincide each time by a massing along the border by Russia as well as these aid convoys.

In Putin's authoritarian country I would love to know how veterans are able to keep such new and top of the line, expensive technology once they get out. Last I checked Putin was not that permissive with the notion of the right to bear arms. Running around with GRAD, Strela, Uragan, etc. is a little beyond just being able to keep your AK once you retire.
 
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#7,707
#7,707
Pacer92 said:
And to answer your question....I don't know?! You'd have to take that up with the OSCE...
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No actually take it up with Moscow. The OSCE has only been ALLOWED two crossing points to monitor. Russia pledged in the previous Minsk agreement they signed to allow for border monitoring and closure. Did not happen. DNR/LNR has not allowed OSCE to go anywhere beyond their two checkpoints. Considering how large the border is, I'd say this is a little dishonest and in violation of what they've signed. None of these three can blame this on Ukraine. This is straight directly with the OSCE.
 
#7,708
#7,708
Pacer92 said:
I'm certain that Russians are coming across the border, but it's not Russian regulars who are enlisted at thè present time. These are mercenaries and freelancers that have done time in the Russian military IMO.
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Who's paying them?
 
#7,711
#7,711
hog88 said:
Somebody as in private citizen or the Russian Government?
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It would strictly be a guess bc I don't know if anyone could know for sure, but I'd say private citizens and companies in Russia, Ukraine and perhaps other eastern block countries..
 
#7,712
#7,712
How are they being armed and supported? Again, Russia doesn't just allow private individuals and companies access to some high tech equipment.
 
#7,713
#7,713
I'm reading a deal was brokered between the leaders of France, Germany, Russia, Ukraine, and the rebels. It appears Ukraine (minus Crimea) will be restored with greater autonomy for the east. The last I heard, a large force of the Ukrainian army was trapped and the whole Ukrainian army would essentially be combat ineffective. I was quite surprised that the only real concessions the rebels pushed for was:

11. Keiv will implement comprehensive constitutional reform by the end of the year, which would decentralize the Ukrainian political system and give privileges to Donetsk and Lugansk. The privileges include language self-determination, the freedom to appoint prosecutors and judges, and to establish economic ties with Russia.

If Putin is hell bent on restoring the old Soviet bloc.... he sure is slow playing it.
 
#7,714
#7,714
Keep in mind the rebels were not at the table. Putin represented their interests. Odd, since Russia is not involved. Why would Russia represent two groups that had a seat at Minsk I?

I don't expect this to hold. Too much ambiguity. Weak enforcement. Putin came into this very confident. From many reports he seemed bored and already moving on. The West better hold on to sanctions well into this being implemented.
 
#7,715
#7,715
CSpindizzy said:
Keep in mind the rebels were not at the table. Putin represented their interests. Odd, since Russia is not involved. Why would Russia represent two groups that had a seat at Minsk I?
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Maybe the same reason France and Germany were at the table... they wanted peace. Actually a better question might be, why wasn't the US invited? I'm playing devil's advocate here. I don't know the answer and I'm genuinely curious what everyone thinks.

It just seems odd to me with all the leverage the rebels had (they essentially won), the only thing Putin asks for on their behalf is freedom to speak their language, appoint their own reps, and trade with who they want.
 
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#7,716
#7,716
CSpindizzy said:
Keep in mind the rebels were not at the table. Putin represented their interests. Odd, since Russia is not involved. Why would Russia represent two groups that had a seat at Minsk I?

I don't expect this to hold. Too much ambiguity. Weak enforcement. Putin came into this very confident. From many reports he seemed bored and already moving on. The West better hold on to sanctions well into this being implemented.
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At least he was at the table! Not in Kiev trying to broker arms deals as the solution. Which probably would of earned you a raise btw.

You are never satisfied..
 
#7,718
#7,718
After reading the new details I'm confident in saying that the DNR/LNR will violate the agreement within a few weeks or months at the latest. They did so with the previous Minsk Accords. Not to mention Ukraine got nothing in these talks. Russia just won everything and by doing so created a new future frozen conflict.
 
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#7,719
#7,719
Pacer92 said:
At least he was at the table! Not in Kiev trying to broker arms deals as the solution. Which probably would of earned you a raise btw.

You are never satisfied..
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Forgive me for being skeptical after Budapest and Minsk I have not been observed by Russia. Hard to be pleased with agreements being signed and never honored. And forgive me for supporting a nation trying to defend its sovereignty.....something that is a core precept of the United Nations. Just not that into autocratic fascist reboots.

A raise?
 
#7,720
#7,720
Velo Vol said:
What are Germany and France going to do to see the agreement is followed? What is their responsibility?
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They have none. The agreement only tells them to continue the dialogue. They are not enforcing parties. From what I see this monitoring falls into the hands of an already proven neutered OSCE. And Russian forces are just driving right by them on the border. The OSCE are just documenting what they see...and what they are allowed to see. Can they enforce? No. Can they be everywhere to monitor? No.

Here are some decent questions as well...

A New Ukraine Ceasefire? Our Summary And Analysis | The Interpreter
 
#7,722
#7,722
CSpindizzy said:
They have none. The agreement only tells them to continue the dialogue. They are not enforcing parties. From what I see this monitoring falls into the hands of an already proven neutered OSCE. And Russian forces are just driving right by them on the border. The OSCE are just documenting what they see...and what they are allowed to see. Can they enforce? No. Can they be everywhere to monitor? No.

Here are some decent questions as well...

A New Ukraine Ceasefire? Our Summary And Analysis | The Interpreter
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Pretty good article. I'm curious as to the status of Savchenko as well, not sure too many people know her story. Not sure if you agree but I have issues with the resuming of social security payments and amnesty provisions.
 
#7,723
#7,723
Grand Vol said:
For being such a good agent provocateur in the Ukraine and buying elections.
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I guess I can thank all of these guys for the prospects of new elections in both DNR and LNR. Maybe we can be paid in rubles for tampering with those elections. Throw in an Olympic Village condo in Sochi and a mail order bride and we may have terms.
 
#7,725
#7,725
CSpindizzy said:
They have none. The agreement only tells them to continue the dialogue. They are not enforcing parties. From what I see this monitoring falls into the hands of an already proven neutered OSCE. And Russian forces are just driving right by them on the border. The OSCE are just documenting what they see...and what they are allowed to see. Can they enforce? No. Can they be everywhere to monitor? No.

Here are some decent questions as well...

A New Ukraine Ceasefire? Our Summary And Analysis | The Interpreter
Click to expand...

the article does raise some very good questions. how can Ukraine monitor the border if they aren't allowed inside and what happens to the pocket of surrounded troops are the two biggest for me.
 
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