Ukraine Protests

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#6,326
#6,326
Pacer92 said:
Like I said....anybody that supports this regime in Kiev and what they are doing, is uninformed..
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No, we're completely informed. We live in America. We can examine alternatives through the Internet.

We just choose to believe that Russia is primarily in the wrong.

Like I've said before, I don't necessarily blame Russia for getting involved.

But, like us in Iraq, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the right or moral thing to do.
 
#6,327
#6,327
Per Interfax the "Donetsk People's Republic" says the Minsk Protocol is no longer under consideration in it's current form.
 
#6,328
#6,328
Bur, what you linked earlier from 20committee is really good stuff. Putin will gradually (almost seamlessly) take Ukraine from its ocean-going capability.

For those among us who think this is an actual homegrown rebellion (which, quite frankly, I'm not convince you are - you just hate America so much you can't admit otherwise), in Afghanistan and Iraq, things like this didn't happen. You had insurgencies, but not major offensives that were capable of arresting large chunks of land.

For the love of God, just admit that Russian troops are there.

I'll stop giving you hell if you can just admit it.
 
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#6,329
#6,329
Pacer92 said:
Like I said....anybody that supports this regime in Kiev and what they are doing, is uninformed..
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just like anyone who supports the regime in Moscow is also uninformed. both sides are dirty, only one is acting within its own borders however. Even if the Kremlin wasn't ordering troops over (which they are) they could very easily stop the conflict, if that is what it wanted. Russia wants war and conflict.
 
#6,330
#6,330
here to push the point. the OSCE which Putin has even pushed as being independent and not corrupted by the west reports:

In Donetsk, the SMM heard intermittent shelling throughout the reporting period. The SMM could not ascertain whether this was incoming or outgoing due to their distance from the shelling, or where the impacts hit. The SMM saw a Grad multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) near Makiivka (16km east of Donetsk, “DPR”-controlled). A convoy of ten unmarked T-80 tanks was seen by the SMM travelling west on highway H-21 in Zuhres (36km east of Donetsk, “DPR”-controlled). The SMM also saw a BMP-1 armoured personnel carrier travelling west on H-21 near Shaktarsk (50km east of Donetsk, “DPR”-controlled).
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Latest from OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine based on information received as of 18:00 (Kyiv time), 22 January 2015 | OSCE

stop reading RT for two days, find other sources you wouldn't mind reading, i would suggest OSCE as they are impartial and point out the 'mistakes' on both sides. Russia up to their chest in this mess.
 
#6,331
#6,331
LouderVol said:
here to push the point. the OSCE which Putin has even pushed as being independent and not corrupted by the west reports:



Latest from OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine based on information received as of 18:00 (Kyiv time), 22 January 2015 | OSCE

stop reading RT for two days, find other sources you wouldn't mind reading, i would suggest OSCE as they are impartial and point out the 'mistakes' on both sides. Russia up to their chest in this mess.
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Also more importantly Ukraine retired all of it's T-80 tanks, the only place where they could realistically get them is from Mother Russia. If you watch the following video you'll see the Russian flag flying over the ruins of Donetsk Airport and not the flag of Donetsk People's Republic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&v=R1pPnSBCwkc&x-yt-cl=84503534#t=76
 
#6,332
#6,332
#6,337
#6,337
Burhead said:
You mean defending their territorial sovereignty from foreign backed terrorists? God forbid someone supports that.
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Their territorial sovereignty was never threatened. Crimea has been part of Russia or the Soviet Union for far longer than it has been a province of Ukraine.
 
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#6,338
#6,338
Rasputin_Vol said:
Their territorial sovereignty was never threatened. Crimea has been part of Russia or the Soviet Union for far longer than it has been a province of Ukraine.
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Maybe we should just hand the entire United States back to the Indians, since they technically had this land longer. That would solve everyone's problems, I'm sure.
 
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#6,339
#6,339
Pacer92 said:
The people who support what the Ukrainian govt is doing, like yourself..
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I can watch RT anytime I want. Unlike people in Russia, I have plenty of news options.

Pacer92 said:
Like I said....anybody that supports this regime in Kiev and what they are doing, is uninformed..
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I'm not rooting for "this regime"--what I support is the freedom of Ukrainian citizens to peacefully choose the government they want, without being invaded by a neighbour.
 
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#6,341
#6,341
Velo Vol said:
I can watch RT anytime I want. Unlike people in Russia, I have plenty of news options.



I'm not rooting for "this regime"--what I support is the freedom of Ukrainian citizens to peacefully choose the government they want, without being invaded by a neighbour.
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There has been nothing peaceful about anything that's went on in Ukraine! Eastern Ukrainians wanted no part of the puppet regime set up by the US, and were attacked by their own government. Killing your own civilians is not a peaceful solution..
 
#6,342
#6,342
Burhead said:
Novorossiya (Eastern Ukraine) - Annexed like Crimea into Russia
Middle of the country, including Kiev - Will become a buffer/vassal state of the Kremlin
Western Ukraine - Will become independent and will be allowed to join the European Union and NATO by Putin if they wish.
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The scenario for the first partition is obvious. I'm much more intrigued by the suggested second division. Unfortunately, he just shut down his comments.

I tweeted him and asked if he could elaborate on why. He said, "not in a tweet." I don't know if he will expand on it in a later post or not.

Clearly the west part of the country is much more European-leaning than the rest. I don't know why Kyiv would want to be a vassal state, though.
 
#6,345
#6,345
Velo Vol said:
The scenario for the first partition is obvious. I'm much more intrigued by the suggested second division. Unfortunately, he just shut down his comments.

I tweeted him and asked if he could elaborate on why. He said, "not in a tweet." I don't know if he will expand on it in a later post or not.

Clearly the west part of the country is much more European-leaning than the rest. I don't know why Kyiv would want to be a vassal state, though.
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To be fair to him, people were being kind of "dicky" and demanding on there.
 
#6,350
#6,350
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