'15 MD OT Pat Allen

#954
#954
AstonRoyal said:
You're making assumptions. It's mainly territorial because some coaches have more relationships in certain areas and it's more efficient to send them on trips into an area rather then them going all over the country. That's not to say that the position coach is completely out of it, but recruiting's all about relationships.



Source: Inside The T Mailbag: The Barrel - UTSPORTS.COM - University of Tennessee Athletics

For example for Drew Richmond, the primary recruiter is Mark Elder and the secondary is Mahoney. So Elder will be the one that calls Richmond everyday and the one who'll have established a relationship with Richmond. That's not to say that Mahoney's not a part of it but it's not primarily in contact with him. Also it's worth noting that Butch is actually more involved directly in recruiting than coaches normally which is why he's been so successful at recruiting.
Source: Drew Richmond Recruit Interests

Another example, Thigpen's actually Allen's lead recruiter and Mahoney is secondary.
Source: Patrick Allen Recruit Interests

So no, position coaches ARE NOT the lead recruiters for their positions. So YOU were saying what exactly, now?
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Thank you, Sir. I hate when people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about but act like their flawed opinion is the truth. Unfortunately happens way to much on here.
 
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#955
#955
Stupid argument. If the lead recruiter is based on who will be their position coach then midst of the kids we are signing must play LB under Thig. It is based on many things. Geography and connections/relationships being the primary determinant.
 
#956
#956
VolGee4 said:
This is the VN way. No one gets credit for Robertson because someone thinks he was privy to the discussion that he was recruited only as a defensive lineman. Then, speculate that Mosley would be elite on the DL. Only here.

The main recruiters are not cut and dry either. I believe Elder had the most to do with recruiting Tuttle, and he isn't his position coach. There are other regions where coaches have influence, like Gillespie in the Atlanta area. Just not simply that all players are recruited by their position coaches.
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Not to mention he somehow knows none of the players committed for this class will pan out. He also somehow knows who we will add by signing day and that they will not pan out either.
 
#957
#957
keckjm said:
I never said we haven't recruited a LT prospect, I said we didn't have a true LT prospect. I also was talking about this class only. I thought the Allen/St.Louis to Hall comparison was a dead give away of that.

Also, who's to blame for the "all in" recruitment of Brown when he couldn't qualify? Who's to blame when Richmond used UT after we slow played everyone for him? The circumstances for the lack of OT recruiting by this staff will soon become an unacceptable excuse for our struggles on the OL. In 2.5 years we have recruited two true OTs, Blair and Kendrick. That's not acceptable. Last time I checked, we don't obtain brownie points for our effort on the recruiting trail. I know this staff works hard; however, our OT recruiting is subpar so far. In terms of OT recruiting, we aren't playing checkers or chess, we are playing Russian Roulette with a bullet in one of the chambers. If Blair doesn't work out, and we don't obtain another OT this recruiting class, we might be in serious trouble.
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But I think Blair will work out and we will sign one or two more OL to this class and we will be fine. Blair will play 2 years giving us time to see what we have in this class and who has potential in the next class. It's a concern but you're panicking way too soon. You have already given up after one full class by this staff. Lol
 
#959
#959
titansvolsfaninga said:
Position coaches are normally the secondary recruiters. You are right and wrong. So you 're full of sh!te as well.
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Wow, such a witty post.

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#960
#960
titansvolsfaninga said:
OL is position that requires development. Rarely do freshmen come in and dominate. So yes, it can be traced back to the previous administration. Unfortunately we can't judge his recruiting prowess until 16.
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So, that's why he needed to keep his own OL recruits on the bench in favor of a DT recruit...who happens to be a true freshman himself....and having to do the same for another DT recruit (Mosley) from the same class, this spring?

Seems like you are just trying to make excuses for Mahoney...like you did for Dooley right up until the moment he was fired.
 
#961
#961
VolGee4 said:
This is the VN way. No one gets credit for Robertson because someone thinks he was privy to the discussion that he was recruited only as a defensive lineman. Then, speculate that Mosley would be elite on the DL. Only here.

The main recruiters are not cut and dry either. I believe Elder had the most to do with recruiting Tuttle, and he isn't his position coach. There are other regions where coaches have influence, like Gillespie in the Atlanta area. Just not simply that all players are recruited by their position coaches.
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If you think the position coach isn't calling the shots about who HE wants and doesn't want, you are delusional. IT IS THEIR JOB. They don't have to be the front man. They compile a list of players they want to pursue and the coaches covering those players make initial contact, but at some point, the position coach gets involved.

You hear it from recruits all the time, talking predominantly about their position coach and how they "stay in touch." So, don't try to sell me on this BS line that other coaches are just as responsible for the failure or success. They are not. They play a minor role in the larger scheme of things.
 
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#962
#962
Vol Revolver said:
Thank you, Sir. I hate when people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about but act like their flawed opinion is the truth. Unfortunately happens way to much on here.
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You don't have a clue yourself, so what the hell are you talking about? When you hear recruits talk about the specifics of their recruitment, 9 times out of 10 you will hear them mention they "stay in touch with...".....wait for it....wait for it............their position coach.

Just this past week, I heard Kirkland talk about him staying in touch with Coach Thig (even though other coaches had some level of involvement). Bussey talked about him staying in touch with....surprise, surprise....Coach Gillespe.

Think about it for a moment. If you are a position coach, it is largely YOUR responsibility above all others to ensure your position group succeeds. If someone else is doing all the shopping for your groceries, that is not going to help you keep your job when THEY do a piz-poor job of bringing in players for you to coach.

As a position coach it is imperative that you get the most talent possible at your position, because the more talent you bring in, the more competent you look as a position coach. If other groups are pulling in mostly 4-5* players and you have to subsist on 3*s, it's going to show up on Saturday's and ultimately you are responsible for the results.

You will fall on the sword before the HC does.
 
#963
#963
Just a gut feeling, but I think we will land both Allen and St.Louis. They both know how much they are needed here. Butch has made both fully aware the opportunity for early playing time. They both love the family atmosphere going on in Knoxville and there is a great potential to make something special happen. All the pieces are there except Left Tackle. Come on down, if you want to make a run for a few Natty's in a couple of years.
 
#964
#964
The last 70 posts in this thread is like a non-optimistic Volunteer"fan" (sick of negavol)convention. sjt..tux..keck..msg.etc. Any new info?
 
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#965
#965
VOLorNuttin said:
If you think the position coach isn't calling the shots about who HE wants and doesn't want, you are delusional. IT IS THEIR JOB. They don't have to be the front man. They compile a list of players they want to pursue and the coaches covering those players make initial contact, but at some point, the position coach gets involved.

You hear it from recruits all the time, talking predominantly about their position coach and how they "stay in touch." So, don't try to sell me on this BS line that other coaches are just as responsible for the failure or success. They are not. They play a minor role in the larger scheme of things.
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No reason to discuss with someone who thinks they know it all. I never said that the position coach wasn't involved. Just that they aren't always the primary recruiter. Sure, they make plenty of contact because that is who will coach the recruit. But, it has been publicly stated that Coach Elder has been the integral reason why Tuttle is going to UT. Stripling was instrumental with Chance Hall, who will be an OL. Gillespie has recruited Quarte Sapp in Atlanta. Not all the same positions. I would think the recruits are evaluated and ranked as a staff, but I guess I will defer to those who think they know more.
 
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#966
#966
Tux said:
The position coaches are the lead recruiter in 90% of all recruits. Butch is one of the few coaches who works as a lead recruiter.
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No they aren't lol.

Nevermind(maybe)...I think I may have read it wrong. I took it you meant the position coach is the lead recruiter for kids who play the position they coach. If that is what you meant then I still say you're wrong lol. :hi:
 
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#967
#967
Is this thread for real lol. You guys are all correct. Recruiting is divided regionally from a coordination perspective. That regional recruiter will be responsible for all recruits in that region. The position coach is obviously going to be critical for that recruit as well as the student athlete well be spending the lion's share of his athletic career with this coach (barring the chance this coach leaved) the head coach provides the recruit with the vision and big picture of the direction of the program. He is also the closer when needed. Everyone of you have said these things and they are all true. Recruiting is a team effort.
 
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#968
#968
VolGee4 said:
No reason to discuss with someone who thinks they know it all. I never said that the position coach wasn't involved. Just that they aren't always the primary recruiter. Sure, they make plenty of contact because that is who will coach the recruit. But, it has been publicly stated that Coach Elder has been the integral reason why Tuttle is going to UT. Stripling was instrumental with Chance Hall, who will be an OL. Gillespie has recruited Quarte Sapp in Atlanta. Not all the same positions. I would think the recruits are evaluated and ranked as a staff, but I guess I will defer to those who think they know more.
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We all know other coaches recruit some outside of their own group. That's not news, nor is it contrary to the point that the Position coach is the chief shot-caller for his individual group. He's responsible for the success of his group, so it's incumbent upon him to be heavily involved in the process.

Sure, CBJ and the Coordinators have more ultimate say, but it's like any corporate structure, the executives let the managers beneath take care of their responsibilities without trying to micro-manage things.

So, once more, as a practical example, Gillespie will have a group of RB's he likes and feels fits the team's need the best. Sure CBJ and Bajakian have a great deal of input into the decisions, but they largely let him run the show, seeing that it's his position group and his ultimate responsibility.

So, it all comes back to Mahoney. He is ultimately responsible for his position group. Not just coaching...but recruiting, as well. His success or failure is largely contingent upon his ability to acquire the talent needed for his group to fulfill their role on the team.

This year, his group was grossly deficient. His job as OL coach won't survive another season like 2014. Recruiting like he has been won't help him keep his job. It's as simple as that.
 
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#969
#969
CWGvol said:
But I think Blair will work out and we will sign one or two more OL to this class and we will be fine. Blair will play 2 years giving us time to see what we have in this class and who has potential in the next class. It's a concern but you're panicking way too soon. You have already given up after one full class by this staff. Lol
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We are about to be done with Butch's 3rd class. 2 OT in 2.5 years. Think about that for a min. Blair isn't the best JuCo LT prospect either. He's best suited at RT. I got blasted for saying this in his thread from the get go, and what do you know, he never sees the field this year... Even us cyber coaches can see flaws in a guy's techniques. I didn't need Mahoney to tell me that Blair had terrible footwork and hand placement, and that it was preventing him from playing this year.

We are putting all our money on Blair. Its shouldn't be like that after 3 recruiting classes. If you have to sign 3 JuCo OTs to obtain immediate help, then that's what you do. We have no depth. If Blair gets hurt, we are in the same position we were in last year. Kendrick should have been playing after the OK game to let him gain experience. Past Blair, it's Kerbs, Kendrick, or a freshman...
 
#970
#970
VOLorNuttin said:
We all know other coaches recruit some outside of their own group. That's not news, nor is it contrary to the point that the Position coach is the chief shot-caller for his individual group. He's responsible for the success of his group, so it's incumbent upon him to be heavily involved in the process.

Sure, CBJ and the Coordinators have more ultimate say, but it's like any corporate structure, the executives let the managers beneath take care of their responsibilities without trying to micro-manage things.

So, once more, as a practical example, Gillespie will have a group of RB's he likes and feels fits the team's need the best. Sure CBJ and Bajakian have a great deal of input into the decisions, but they largely let him run the show, seeing that it's his position group and his ultimate responsibility.

So, it all comes back to Mahoney. He is ultimately responsible for his position group. Not just coaching...but recruiting, as well. His success or failure is largely contingent upon his ability to acquire the talent needed for his group to fulfill their role on the team.

This year, his group was grossly deficient. His job as OC coach won't survive another season like 2014. Recruiting like he has been won't help him keep his job. It's as simple as that.
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This is a slight backtrack from your post this morning. You hedged a little with this one because this morning you said that all position coaches are the lead recruiters. That was simply contested as not ENTIRELY true. There are some regions where it is clear that certain coaches recruit even though the position coaches are still involved.

I also suggested that Jashon Robertson and Charles Mosley weren't entirely recruited as DLinemen as you suggest. Maybe you spoke to Mahoney or Stripling, I don't know. But the numbers suggest that they were being considered on offense. We only took Raulerson, Thomas, and Blair as others on offense. We recruited Barnett, Mixon, Sawyers, and Williams for possible interior DLinemen. I know Barnett played at DE, but there was talk of moving him inside. To think that both were strictly going to defense until the move is short-sighted.
 
#972
#972
VOLorNuttin said:
We all know other coaches recruit some outside of their own group. That's not news, nor is it contrary to the point that the Position coach is the chief shot-caller for his individual group. He's responsible for the success of his group, so it's incumbent upon him to be heavily involved in the process.

Sure, CBJ and the Coordinators have more ultimate say, but it's like any corporate structure, the executives let the managers beneath take care of their responsibilities without trying to micro-manage things.

So, once more, as a practical example, Gillespie will have a group of RB's he likes and feels fits the team's need the best. Sure CBJ and Bajakian have a great deal of input into the decisions, but they largely let him run the show, seeing that it's his position group and his ultimate responsibility.

So, it all comes back to Mahoney. He is ultimately responsible for his position group. Not just coaching...but recruiting, as well. His success or failure is largely contingent upon his ability to acquire the talent needed for his group to fulfill their role on the team.

This year, his group was grossly deficient. His job as OL coach won't survive another season like 2014. Recruiting like he has been won't help him keep his job. It's as simple as that.
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Some guy on here claims to be Kendrick's brother. He's stated over and over that Mahoney wanted to play Kendrick but Butch didn't? If this is true, then Butch is micro-managing. That's a problem in my eyes. I also have a hard time believing this since Mahoney is Butch's guy. It would seam Mahoney has the green light to call the shots on the OL. Yes, the OC and Butch will have their say, but Mahoney should know the OL players better than any other coach on this staff. Ultimately, Mahoney should be calling the shots on the starting lineups, while also deciding who we should go after on the recruiting trail. This doesn't mean the rest of the staff has no say in these matters, but Mahoney can't let Thig do all the OL recruiting for him. At some point, it's his job to formulate relationships with players like Allen, etc. So, what you are saying is spot on IMO.
 
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#973
#973
VolGee4 said:
No reason to discuss with someone who thinks they know it all. I never said that the position coach wasn't involved. Just that they aren't always the primary recruiter. Sure, they make plenty of contact because that is who will coach the recruit. But, it has been publicly stated that Coach Elder has been the integral reason why Tuttle is going to UT. Stripling was instrumental with Chance Hall, who will be an OL. Gillespie has recruited Quarte Sapp in Atlanta. Not all the same positions. I would think the recruits are evaluated and ranked as a staff, but I guess I will defer to those who think they know more.
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Ok we've all established that VOLorNuttin doesn't know what he's talking about. Can we get back to Pat Allen please?
 
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#975
#975
I don't even know what is happening in this thread. I don't hate it as it is entertaining, but I wish we could take it to a Torrance Gibson/ Drew Richmond type of thread. There is hope and news to be had with Allen.
 
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