Recruiting Forum: Football Talk XV

[SamRebel35]

Yeah, I get that. It's just the choice not to go for it before halftime that bothered me.

I didn't see anything wrong with it. We hadn't moved the ball the entire half. What makes you think we could move it with 2 mins left? Not a lot of up side. More likely than us getting points on that drive is us forcing a throw that gets picked and gets us deeper in the hole.

 

[Face]

The Vols were missing 18 scholarship players at kickoff for Missouri due to injury or suspension. Thats not counting those redshirting.

Unreal. Especially considering only 60 of those on scholarship are worth a dang

 

[zhangliao04]

The screen to Croom against Kentucky was a pretty good idea. Pig had a bunch of targets with mixed results.

I get the frustration. I share it. It's inconsistent play, and it's not surprising from such a young group.

Have no fear though. These won't be "excuses" much longer. The good thing about Jones is that he's recruiting his excuses away. Soon these guys will have a roster of experienced, talented players. Then it'll be put up or shut up time.

The waiting I understand. It is just the fact that I do not see the play calling on the offensive side getting any better as the season progress. That is where a lot of my frustration comes from.

As for the screen to Croom against UK, that did turn out to be a good play. I was actually talking about (during the Mizzou game) the quick throw out to the parameter where Croom caught the ball at the line of scrimmage when he was all by himself with a CB right on him. He isn't a shifty WR. Would have made more sense to throw it to Von or Pig. Von being the best of the WR's for something like that. Just didn't make any sense to me and still doesn't unless I am not seeing something with that play that others do.

 

[TNrockytop4ever]

I would love to play Notre Dame in a bowl game. Is there any chance they'd get a MCB bid?

 

[Vols4us]

I don't mind challenging the onside kick. I agree that we'd have had very little time to drive the entire field, assuming they didn't get a 1st down.

I do mind keeping all three with 2 min left in the first half after a 3rd down stop. Was the most Dooley thing I've seen since Dooley left. That's a HUGE amount of time.

If folks are honest about the situation they would acknowledge that Butch messes up from time to time. We all want him to be the guy to turn it all around so much we turn a blind eye to it. I just ask that he acknowledge a mistake a mistake, somewhat like Spurrier does. Then correct it and get better.

 

[Ashevillevol]

What's everyone's consensus of our Bowl and Opponent?

I think the consensus would be it does not matter what bowl or who we play as long as we are going. The extra practice is as important as the game itself.

 

[Volator]

I I do mind keeping all three with 2 min left in the first half after a 3rd down stop. Was the most Dooley thing I've seen since Dooley left. That's a HUGE amount of time.

Do you put Pickel in the same boat as he didn't call any timeouts either after the first down run?

I understand CBJ logic as that is why they called the draw on the first play. If it gains 12 -15 yards, then close to mid-field and you can use the entire playbook.

BTW, MU punted with 12 - 15 secs on the play clock.

 

[volssam]

Y'all may not like this attitude/viewpoint towards the bowl issue, but I want the easiest opponent we can get. I don't care about a headliner matchup or whatever. I want a win. We need to get to 7 wins. Period.

That's something we can pitch to recruits a month out from NSD. "We went from 5 wins to 7 wins playing a tough schedule and with tons of freshmen."

 

[volssam]

Look at Jimmy frank at vandy. And Meyer at OSU. They get respect for their record, no matter that they played super easy schedules

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Yeah, I get that. It's just the choice not to go for it before halftime that bothered me.

What happens if we have a fumble or interception, and Missouri scores before the half to take all of the momentum in the halftime? It might have been a different story if our offense had been driving the ball well and putting points on the board. However, we were getting stymied frequently. Also, our defense was holding up pretty well. If it would've been a shootout in the first half, then I could see him trying to score before the half.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Y'all may not like this attitude/viewpoint towards the bowl issue, but I want the easiest opponent we can get. I don't care about a headliner matchup or whatever. I want a win. We need to get to 7 wins. Period.

That's something we can pitch to recruits a month out from NSD. "We went from 5 wins to 7 wins playing a tough schedule and with tons of freshmen."

I agree with this at this point in the rebuilding process.

 

[Dust10]

Y'all may not like this attitude/viewpoint towards the bowl issue, but I want the easiest opponent we can get. I don't care about a headliner matchup or whatever. I want a win. We need to get to 7 wins. Period.

That's something we can pitch to recruits a month out from NSD. "We went from 5 wins to 7 wins playing a tough schedule and with tons of freshmen."

Honestly, I like our chances against pretty much any non-SEC opponent. Unless they have a great pass rush, then all bets are off.

 

[SamRebel35]

Honestly, I like our chances against pretty much any non-SEC opponent. Unless they have a great pass rush, then all bets are off.

This. The SEC is brutal when you're trying to get to a bowl, but once you're there, you're battle tested for sure.

 

[volssam]

Honestly, I like our chances against pretty much any non-SEC opponent. Unless they have a great pass rush, then all bets are off.

But it would be a whole lot easier to beat a North Carolina or someone similar than a Notre Dame

 

[VolGee4]

I don't mind challenging the onside kick. I agree that we'd have had very little time to drive the entire field, assuming they didn't get a 1st down.

I do mind keeping all three with 2 min left in the first half after a 3rd down stop. Was the most Dooley thing I've seen since Dooley left. That's a HUGE amount of time.

Not saying that he should have done it this time, but he did the exact same thing against Georgia last year down 17-3, and it was the correct decision. I was at the game, and I think there were some boos. But, our offense was going nowhere. My guess is that if the field position was better and if we hadn't lost 4 yards on first down, he might have used them. Individual non-scoring plays seem insignificant, but Mizzou had it 3rd and 31 at their own 18, and Murphy had a 12 yard run to the 30. If we limit them to under 5 yards, CBJ probably calls a TO. JMO.

 

[J-P]

If folks are honest about the situation they would acknowledge that Butch messes up from time to time. We all want him to be the guy to turn it all around so much we turn a blind eye to it. I just ask that he acknowledge a mistake a mistake, somewhat like Spurrier does. Then correct it and get better.

I really don't want this reply to come off as a smart aleck response, but is it possible that they could do the later without having to confess their mistakes to you, the media and the whole world?

Few of them have ever coached against the level of competition that they are up against now, so I fully expect to see some coaching mistakes along the way, and also to see them learn from those mistakes. I don't see any benefit in having to discuss those mistakes with anyone outside of the immediate coaching circle. If two or three years down the road they show no ability to learn from those mistakes, that would be a different story.

IMHO, JMO, MTC, OAO.

 

[J-P]

What happens if we have a fumble or interception, and Missouri scores before the half to take all of the momentum in the halftime? It might have been a different story if our offense had been driving the ball well and putting points on the board. However, we were getting stymied frequently. Also, our defense was holding up pretty well. If it would've been a shootout in the first half, then I could see him trying to score before the half.

This. It think Coach Jones was thinking get to halftime and go make the adjustments to fix it w/out surrendering any more points. After all, they were going to get the ball first in the second half.

In hindsight didn't turn out so well, but second guessing after the fact is not a luxury he has.

 

[VolGee4]

He also said if he had kept the time out, the best case scenario to get the ball back would have been with 3-4 seconds left on the clock. His options were take a chance and challenge the play or keep the timeout in hopes our worn out defense can hold Mizzou to a three and out so maybe the offense can drive the entire field with 3-4 seconds left.

I don't agree with this. If I calculate it correctly, we probably could have had a minute or just under left. Basically, you take two TO's after the first two downs. Then, third down play, and the play clock runs down for 4th down. Mizzou got the ball with 1:52. JMO.

 

[VolGee4]

If folks are honest about the situation they would acknowledge that Butch messes up from time to time. We all want him to be the guy to turn it all around so much we turn a blind eye to it. I just ask that he acknowledge a mistake a mistake, somewhat like Spurrier does. Then correct it and get better.

Last time I checked, Butch was still human. We make mistakes. I don't think any of our fans think he is perfect. But, sometimes, there are different ways to do things, and unfortunately, some of our fans don't realize this.

 

[triadvolfan]

He also said if he had kept the time out, the best case scenario to get the ball back would have been with 3-4 seconds left on the clock. His options were take a chance and challenge the play or keep the timeout in hopes our worn out defense can hold Mizzou to a three and out so maybe the offense can drive the entire field with 3-4 seconds left.

He must be using the same math that says he can sign 32 players this year. I haven't gone back and checked the tape but if memory serves the 3rd down play was finished with about 35 seconds on the clock. Had he called a timeout they would have gotten the ball with a bit more time than 3 or 4 seconds not to mention they would have been forced to punt (which is always a chance for a big play).

I like CBJ but he was wrong on that challenge. There was 0 chance they overturned that call as it wasn't even close. There was a small chance UT could have scored if they forced a punt.

 

[Vol464]

Meant 2013 2014 recruits, sophomores and juniors next year.

I'm just picturing rolling jack Jones out there and everyone saying "Mahoney has to play freshmen, what do you expect?"

Got it.

 

[jave36]

I didn't see anything wrong with it. We hadn't moved the ball the entire half. What makes you think we could move it with 2 mins left? Not a lot of up side. More likely than us getting points on that drive is us forcing a throw that gets picked and gets us deeper in the hole.

Shoot, why play the 2nd half? Don't want to risk getting picked.

 

[jave36]

Not saying that he should have done it this time, but he did the exact same thing against Georgia last year down 17-3, and it was the correct decision. I was at the game, and I think there were some boos. But, our offense was going nowhere. My guess is that if the field position was better and if we hadn't lost 4 yards on first down, he might have used them. Individual non-scoring plays seem insignificant, but Mizzou had it 3rd and 31 at their own 18, and Murphy had a 12 yard run to the 30. If we limit them to under 5 yards, CBJ probably calls a TO. JMO.

Making them punt from their own 30 isn't good field position? I can't believe you guys are OK with literally mailing in 2 mins and 3 TO of a close game.

 

[SamRebel35]

Shoot, why play the 2nd half? Don't want to risk getting picked.

Lol. You must have been the Captain of your debate team with such unassailable logic.

 

[jave36]

Do you put Pickel in the same boat as he didn't call any timeouts either after the first down run?

I understand CBJ logic as that is why they called the draw on the first play. If it gains 12 -15 yards, then close to mid-field and you can use the entire playbook.

BTW, MU punted with 12 - 15 secs on the play clock.

I posted it when it happened. Both were bone headed, although when butch didn't call a TO, Pinkel probably realized we were mailing it in and didn't need to wait out the clock, so ours was the slightly more bone headed move, IMO.