Recruiting Forum: Football Talk XII

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With our young defensive reinforcements slated to begin arriving on campus in little more than a week and with the recurring reminders in this forum that we'll have a lot of talented freshmen this year BUT they are still freshmen, I thought it might be interesting to look a little closer at how other teams in the league have fared using a significant number of freshmen. This article is from early October last year.

"When guys get thrown into the fire right away, we're watching them mature right before our eyes, and it's painful sometimes," Georgia coach Mark Richt said. "They just have to keep their faith and keep banging away, so they can keep getting better."

Georgia has had five freshman defenders start games this season and the seventh-ranked Bulldogs are allowing a league-worst 32.2 points per game.

No. 9 Texas A&M has played 17 true freshmen overall, tied with UCLA for the most of any Football Bowl Subdivision school. Georgia and Tennessee have each used 14. Top-ranked Alabama and No. 10 LSU have played 13 apiece.

"That's part of the SEC," Tennessee coach Butch Jones said. "You're going to attract the best of the best. We try to recruit individuals who as true freshmen can play right away and play early."

It's not unusual for a freshman on offense to spark an SEC's title run - running back T.J. Yeldon and receiver Amari Cooper were two of the top playmakers on Alabama's national championship team last year.

Defensive players, however, often need more time to develop.

"I think it's tough in this league, but there are many (freshmen) that are doing it right now and some are having great success," Mississippi coach Hugh Freeze said. "The easiest position (on defense) to teach would be defensive line, but that doesn't mean it's easy to play there with some of the offensive linemen we come up against. But that would be the easiest mentally to learn. And then the hardest is the secondary, unless you're just going to play some base coverages and not get too far out on things."

Experienced QBs around the conference have taken advantage of inexperienced defenses, but several young defensive backs have been able to hold their own.

Florida cornerback Vernon Hargreaves heads the list. He is tied for the SEC lead with three interceptions and hasn't allowed a touchdown pass for the 17th-ranked Gators.

"We'll play freshmen when they're ready, and this guy's ready," Florida coach Will Muschamp said. "That's the bottom line."

Other starting cornerbacks in the SEC include LSU's Tre'Davious White, Alabama's Eddie Jackson and Tennessee's Cam Sutton. Alex Sezer started each of Texas A&M's first two games. Safeties Tray Matthews and Quincy Mauger and cornerbacks Brendan Langley and Shaq Wiggins have started for Georgia. Mississippi's Tony Conner and Kentucky's Blake McClain are starters at nickel.

Freshmen also are making an impact in the front seven.

Georgia's Leonard Floyd has a team-high 10 quarterback hurries and is tied for the team lead with three sacks. Tennessee's Corey Vereen applied the pressure that led to a game-clinching interception in a recent 31-24 triumph over South Alabama. Texas A&M linebacker Darian Claiborne has topped his team in tackles in two games. Montravius Adams leads Auburn with six hurries, while teammate Carl Lawson produced two sacks Saturday in a 30-22 victory over Mississippi.

"It means a lot," Lawson said after his big performance, "but there are still a lot of things I can go back and fix."

Indeed, all these freshmen have much to learn. For example, Vereen recorded a sack during Tennessee's second-half comeback in a 34-31 overtime loss to Georgia last week, then committed a personal foul on the Bulldogs' game-tying touchdown drive.

With so many freshmen, SEC teams are winning with offense, not defense.

Florida and Alabama are the only SEC schools ranked among the top 25 teams in total defense or scoring defense.

For everyone else in the conference, they hope their freshmen grow up quickly.

"When you learn, you make mistakes," Richt said. "It's just the way it is. You hope they can learn and make mistakes while they're in practice, as they're getting their chance to start two or three years in, but that's not the way life goes all the time."

Freshmen playing critical roles on SEC defenses | College Football
 
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Regarding quarterbacks:

A few years back, in 2008, I put together a brief study of the extent to which freshman starters can be expected to improve as sophomores, and found that in terms of overall pass efficiency the vast majority didn't show much long-term progress at all. Initially, they tended to move toward the mean: Passers with below-average efficiency ratings as freshmen generally progressed toward the average in year two, while the few above-average passers generally regressed. From there, though, only the most blue-chip talents showed any propensity to take flight as upperclassmen. The rest stagnated.

The conclusion then was that for most quarterbacks – those who don't find themselves among the tiny sliver bound for All-America teams and NFL millions – the notion of a steady upward trajectory with experience is thwarted by a rapid leveling-off. Most of the time, beyond a small window for improvement at the very beginning, mediocrity is a harbinger of more mediocrity. Most guys are who they're going to be almost right from the beginning.

So you're starting a true freshman quarterback... - Football Study Hall
 
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They are great dogs! I've had four now with my recent adoption...umm...rescue. Never had a bad one. They are very intelligent and want to please their person, so they train easy. Taught my new one to lie down in about 4 hours.

We had to put our staffordshire terrier/shepherd mix down due to cancer about 2 1/2 months ago. He was with us for about 11 years. He was a great dog and super tolerant with our kids. That was a really sad day.
 
So my two from South Africa probably upset him on several levels.

edit, sorry guys didn't mean to keep it off track, please continue the football talk, much more enjoyable.

Probably. I could buy a one time thing but every single thread Burger participates in he derails it with racial/xenophobic and/or controversial comments. Then he comes back saying he's manic or apologizing and claiming he didn't mean it the way people read it (honest mistake guys, I swear - except it happens like clockwork). It's an old pattern pattern - derail, be offensive, weasel out of it somehow.

I've yet to see another poster make more threads about him than he more than he does.

But yeah, you're right talking football is far superior to talking Burger.
 
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I will take the youth, talent, and inexperience over the experience and limited talent every day of the week. Really looking forward to the 'next' class arriving on campus. What is going to fuel the improvement is the competition. Not just in the beginning, but throughout the season. Which is a major reason why I think they will finish strong with an unexpected win or two in the second half of the season. We are talking about some really talented studs with size and speed coming in - not wishin' and hopin' types.
 
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We had to put our staffordshire terrier/shepherd mix down due to cancer about 2 1/2 months ago. He was with us for about 11 years. He was a great dog and super tolerant with our kids. That was a really sad day.

Really sorry to hear that. My dog is ten and really showing his age. Vet says 3 to 4 more years for him and I hope he is right but you can tell it could be sooner.

The lines concern me greatly. Depth on both lines. The offense concerns me more but I will not buy that we have defensive line depth until I actually see it on the field. It has just been too long since we had any real depth there.
 
Gavin Bryant will be one of the best LBs weve seen in a while... IMO

It is so exciting to see the elite group of LB's that we have coming in. A position that was once one of our weakest position getting strong a lot stronger. (not a shot a A.J. just over all talent & depth).
 
Where do you guys think about Weatherd? Position? Will he make much impact this year or does he need a year? From what I have read he to could be a real good one. And of course I will hang up and listen.
 
I will take the youth, talent, and inexperience over the experience and limited talent every day of the week. Really looking forward to the 'next' class arriving on campus. What is going to fuel the improvement is the competition. Not just in the beginning, but throughout the season. Which is a major reason why I think they will finish strong with an unexpected win or two in the second half of the season. We are talking about some really talented studs with size and speed coming in - not wishin' and hopin' types.

Yep, our talented newcomers won't be "freshmen" anymore by the time we reach the second half of our schedule. Like North, Vereen, & Sutton last year, hopefully. :thumbsup:
 
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I am a very realistic person by nature but I just do not get the worries about the offensive line. Will they drop off in pass protection, yes. However I think concerns over them being the weakest unit on the team are overblown
 
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Additional War Room details aka Grumors

Obviously we alluded very heavily to the magnitude of the June 6-7 weekend for Tennessee football with the first talk on the "Evening with Legends" on June 6 and more.

Hubbs and I have been digging for details on this specific weekend since the week following the Orange & White Game. And we've been around Coach Jones when Jon Gruden has called.

So, yes, Gruden is scheduled to be in town that weekend for the Legends event and the Vols' passing camp. It's like Gruden QB Camp is scheduled to be on Rocky Top, so to speak. Gruden has been a staunch supporter of Butch; called him day he got the job and called him the night of the Vols' upset win over South Carolina, not to mention the previous game after the near miss against Georgia.

So that first weekend of June should be huge for the Vols, and that weekend two weeks later, the "Orange Carpet" weekend, also should be good for UT.

There are still great distances UT must carry its program, but this is another example of Jones' tireless approach to unite the program and move it forward to a return to the upper tier of the SEC.

-John Brice
 
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Where do you guys think about Weatherd? Position? Will he make much impact this year or does he need a year? From what I have read he to could be a real good one. And of course I will hang up and listen.

I feel like he's a lot like Maggit and at worst could be his backup this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he became a full time wde but I really like his speed for outside run support at linebacker. Either way I'm rooting for the guy. Love that he stuck with us all the way through even when big schools closer to home finally came calling.
 
That's a sobering assessment given the mediocre (or worse) performance of Worley and Dobbs last season.

The article doesn't take into effect those around them. It wasn't just QB play last year it was lack of playmakers on offense. If they struggle this year I will be worried but I think it will be real hard for them to have a bad year this year with these weapons.
 
I am a very realistic person by nature but I just do not get the worries about the offensive line. Will they drop off in pass protection, yes. However I think concerns over them being the weakest unit on the team are overblown

I think unproven is the best way to describe our oline, not weak. Our interior line should be pretty solid. Our tackles make me nervous but at least they have the attributes you can't teach (size, athleticism) and looking through my hi def orange tinted sunglasses, I'd say there's reason to be optimistic
 
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The article doesn't take into effect those around them. It wasn't just QB play last year it was lack of playmakers on offense. If they struggle this year I will be worried but I think it will be real hard for them to have a bad year this year with these weapons.

You're correct. The author of the article just looked at a sample of quarterbacks and measured their progression over the course of their career. His contention is that in most cases it appears a QB either has it to begin with or he doesn't.

Here are some closer to home QB ratings:

Tyler Bray
2010 Fr 142.72
2011 So 144.80
2012 Jr 146.26

Dan Lefevour
2006 Fr 146.20 (Brian Kelly's last year)
2007 So 133.50
2008 Jr 144.19
2009 Sr 150.59

Zach Callaros
2009 So 195.53 (Brian Kelly's last year - Played & won 4 games while Pike was hurt)
2010 Jr 137.49
2011 Sr 131.79

Justin Worley
2011 Fr 110.38
2012 So 96.77
2013 Jr 117.39

Joshua Dobbs
2013 Fr 103.28

Aaron Murray
2010 Fr 154.58
2011 So 146.41
2012 Jr 174.82
2013 Sr 158.82

Jordan Rogers went from a QB rating his junior year of 113.76 to 139.13 his senior year so maybe one of our experienced guys can pull a Jordan Rogers.
 
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I am a very realistic person by nature but I just do not get the worries about the offensive line. Will they drop off in pass protection, yes. However I think concerns over them being the weakest unit on the team are overblown

Both tackles are huge areas of concern. For the last two year with an experienced line we have had trouble running the ball especially in the SEC and in short yardage.

Based on what I saw at the O&W game if tremendous improvement is not made in the oline between now and the first game, we will be in big trouble.
 
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I am a very realistic person by nature but I just do not get the worries about the offensive line. Will they drop off in pass protection, yes. However I think concerns over them being the weakest unit on the team are overblown

I agree, the OL is going to surprise many on here. Plenty of talent just need to continue improving and gelling as a unit.

We've got 7 that can run with the 1's and do well, the starting 5 plus Weisman and Gilliam. I doubt we'll need more than 7 this fall and if we do I'm sure Sanders or Kendrick will be ready to step in. They've got all summer and fall camp to continue improving, I'm guessing by SEC play they'll be doing well and the offense will be putting up big points with the supporting cast of talent around them.

I think Lane, Hurd, Wolf, Helm, Malone, North, Pearson, Croom and whatever QB wins the job will make the OL's job much easier.
 
The O Line is going to be better imo.
upgraded TE position
upgraded RB position
upgraded WR position
QB's more mobile
2nd year in system - Pace
 
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