Tennessee is NOT a good job

#126
#126
The reason it's not considered an elite job is because it doesn't pay as an Elite job. There are many schools that are smaller less prestigious and with less resources that pay significantly more than we do. The administration Has no motivation to pay as long as there is 14k in the seats.
 
#127
#127
VKAman said:
Not what I'm saying. Interest from coaches already assumes an appropriate contract, so offering more money wouldn't change interest THAT much. We'd still have Howland wanting to be here, and Bill Self saying no thanks. It would just mean that we could hire one of the better interested coaches, instead of one of the cheap ones.

To me, the interest in and quality of the job have nothing to do with money. It's a good job with plenty of interest, but money is a separate issue/obstacle. It seems like you and DocVol are trying to tie money in with the rest.
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I just don't think the job at UT is as good as some of our fans think it is. Is it a high level job? Yes. Is it top 30 like Jay Bilas says? Not sure but maybe close. But it would attract more high level coaches if UT paid more money. For the money that we pay and for the expectations that our fan base has created, it simply is not appealing to many high level coaches. That is why we go the mid major route. This is my school and my alma mater, and I will always root for it. But I am just trying to be realistic. I would like to see us pay decent money but know it probably won't happen.
 
#128
#128
Smokeybluetick said:
ZO won 63 games in three seasons w/1 sweet sixteen. I would bet we don't do much better if any and I will be LMAO!!!!!!! Check Tenn history books (those of you that wanted him gone) Besides Pearl nobody did that in their first 3 years and Pearl lied his way out here!
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Except, you know, Jerry Green won 67 games in his first three years with 3 NCAAs and a Sweet 16.

Here's the reality, 3 of our last 4 coaches won 20 games multiple times and took us to the Sweet 16.

The other reality, win here, you get paid. Bruce was #3 in the SEC behind Cal and Donovan when he was fired. He had a steady flow of raises.

Do you job, do it well, get raises. Funny how that works? I have no idea why fans want to continue the Hamilton path where you just drop money on everyone no matter how they are performing. That certainly worked out well for us.
 
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#129
#129
I will for once agree with Jay Bilas on this one. UT is a top 30 job or better and we will get a quality coach. This position has a lot going for it - great pay, great fans, great facilities, beautiful country, on and on.
 
#130
#130
VolGee4 said:
I just don't think the job at UT is as good as some of our fans think it is. Is it a high level job? Yes. Is it top 30 like Jay Bilas says? Not sure but maybe close. But it would attract more high level coaches if UT paid more money. For the money that we pay and for the expectations that our fan base has created, it simply is not appealing to many high level coaches. That is why we go the mid major route. This is my school and my alma mater, and I will always root for it. But I am just trying to be realistic. I would like to see us pay decent money but know it probably won't happen.
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Here's why it's a good job.

Giant athletics budget. We will spend money on basketball, as was shown very visibly under Bruce.

We do spend big money on coaches when they win. Bruce was #3 in the SEC in pay when he was fired.

Tennessee actually has a major fan base that loves basketball. You won't be playing in front of 8,000 people if you're doing your job.

Talent proximity. Tennessee is actually an excellent state for basketball talent and other areas fairly close by like Atlanta are basketball hot spots.

It doesn't take national championships to satisfy the fan base like it does at any major basketball school.

You consistently make the NCAAs, don't do stupid things, keep control of your team, aka do your job, and you'll get really rich here and be loved.

The SEC, great publicity. SEC network. But not so extremely competitive on the floor that it's terribly hard to finish in the top 5 in the conference.
 
#131
#131
What a stupid OP. Six straight NCAA appearances under Pearl. Great stadium. Third best program in the conference....Ask Pearl if it's a good job. Is the pressure here that high? No, not at all. Some coaches are good, and some are not. We've hired a lot of mediocre coaches. O'Neil is not a good coach--worst offense I have EVER seen. Green was mediocre--team fundamentals were terrible. Wade Houston? Do you have to ask--had no idea what he was doing. Martin? Mediocre, at best--he proved that with the last offensive play he called for the Vols.
 
#133
#133
We are better than a top 30 job. Easily a top 20-25 job. After the top, say, 15 or so programs in the country, we're as good a job as anybody in the consensus next 10-15, and arguably have more going for us than a lot of the schools in the 15-30 range.
 
#134
#134
DocVol said:
It's toxic. No coach, even in a remotely good situation at his current job, and even in a smaller school/conference, will take this job right now.

Temper your expectations. And then lower them some more.

I'm not saying the standard should be lowered, but I'm at least expecting another Derek Dooley type hire--as in we are turned down by all the major prospects (Pitino, Smart, Howland, Miller, Marshall,...), then we are turned down by some smaller second tier names, and THEN we will hire someone no one has heard of from a a small mid-major.

Some of you need to gather your marbles that were lost years ago. Tennessee has a chance to be a GREAT job again, but it won't happen this time.

Temper your expectations. Then lower then again. This will prove to help with the VN meltdown when it plays out exactly as above.
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So we are restarting the Bruce Pearl countdown thread? 2018 here we come!!!

I am kidding folks. Just. Kidding.
 
#135
#135
VolArmy74 said:
Here's why it's a good job.

Giant athletics budget. We will spend money on basketball, as was shown very visibly under Bruce.

We do spend big money on coaches when they win. Bruce was #3 in the SEC in pay when he was fired.

Tennessee actually has a major fan base that loves basketball. You won't be playing in front of 8,000 people if you're doing your job.

Talent proximity. Tennessee is actually an excellent state for basketball talent and other areas fairly close by like Atlanta are basketball hot spots.

It doesn't take national championships to satisfy the fan base like it does at any major basketball school.

You consistently make the NCAAs, don't do stupid things, keep control of your team, aka do your job, and you'll get really rich here and be loved.

The SEC, great publicity. SEC network. But not so extremely competitive on the floor that it's terribly hard to finish in the top 5 in the conference.
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I am not disputing most of those things. I didn't say it was a bad job. But it is simply not appealing to high level coaches who have won because of what we pay. Let's see what we will get with 1.3-1.5 million. But Dave Hart has been on record saying that football has to be right before they start spending on other things. I just prefer not having to go through the crap shoot every time. But I gues we have trust Hart with the hire.
 
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#137
#137
armchair said:
We are better than a top 30 job. Easily a top 20-25 job. After the top, say, 15 or so programs in the country, we're as good a job as anybody in the consensus next 10-15, and arguably have more going for us than a lot of the schools in the 15-30 range.
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3hrs to Atlanta, 3 and 1/2h to Cinci, top facilities, top attendance, one of the most valuable programs according to Forbes, passionate fan base...

The fact of the matter is we're not only a great job but we're a school that the right coach/recruiter could turn into a monster program. The only thing standing in the way of that is our AD placing a premium on coaching. If our AD does decide to invest in a winning program there's no reason whatsoever we can't be a perennial player - we have far too much going for us and have basically held ourselves back more than anything else. We have everything needed but the coach.
 
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#138
#138
hep said:
OP also swore Gruden was coming, had all kinds of "info" to share too.
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Understand that Hart has talked to Gruden about taking the BB job. Someone seen Gruden at a west Knoxville restaurant with a couple big donors and he was wearing an orange tie.
 
#139
#139
DocVol said:
It's toxic. No coach, even in a remotely good situation at his current job, and even in a smaller school/conference, will take this job right now.

Temper your expectations. And then lower them some more.

I'm not saying the standard should be lowered, but I'm at least expecting another Derek Dooley type hire--as in we are turned down by all the major prospects (Pitino, Smart, Howland, Miller, Marshall,...), then we are turned down by some smaller second tier names, and THEN we will hire someone no one has heard of from a a small mid-major.

Some of you need to gather your marbles that were lost years ago. Tennessee has a chance to be a GREAT job again, but it won't happen this time.

Temper your expectations. Then lower then again. This will prove to help with the VN meltdown when it plays out exactly as above.
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I don't doubt that you're a fan....but why?

If you're resigned to this sad sack fate and insulated from "meltdowns" if expectations are inevitably doomed BEFORE THEY'RE EVEN PROJECTED?....again why

You seem reasonably intelligent...why start a thread like this?...you a masochist? :unsure:
 
#140
#140
DocVol said:
It's toxic. No coach, even in a remotely good situation at his current job, and even in a smaller school/conference, will take this job right now.

Temper your expectations. And then lower them some more.

I'm not saying the standard should be lowered, but I'm at least expecting another Derek Dooley type hire--as in we are turned down by all the major prospects (Pitino, Smart, Howland, Miller, Marshall,...), then we are turned down by some smaller second tier names, and THEN we will hire someone no one has heard of from a a small mid-major.

Some of you need to gather your marbles that were lost years ago. Tennessee has a chance to be a GREAT job again, but it won't happen this time.

Temper your expectations. Then lower then again. This will prove to help with the VN meltdown when it plays out exactly as above.
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Anything related to coaching sports that pays over a million dollars a year is a good job.

End of Discussion
 
#142
#142
DocVol said:
It's toxic. No coach, even in a remotely good situation at his current job, and even in a smaller school/conference, will take this job right now.

Temper your expectations. And then lower them some more.

I'm not saying the standard should be lowered, but I'm at least expecting another Derek Dooley type hire--as in we are turned down by all the major prospects (Pitino, Smart, Howland, Miller, Marshall,...), then we are turned down by some smaller second tier names, and THEN we will hire someone no one has heard of from a a small mid-major.

Some of you need to gather your marbles that were lost years ago. Tennessee has a chance to be a GREAT job again, but it won't happen this time.

Temper your expectations. Then lower then again. This will prove to help with the VN meltdown when it plays out exactly as above.
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Wow! Such insight, you must be a fortune teller!!!
 
#143
#143
VolGee4 said:
I am not disputing most of those things. I didn't say it was a bad job. But it is simply not appealing to high level coaches who have won because of what we pay. Let's see what we will get with 1.3-1.5 million. But Dave Hart has been on record saying that football has to be right before they start spending on other things. I just prefer not having to go through the crap shoot every time. But I gues we have trust Hart with the hire.
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The only schools who just back up the Brinks truck to hire someone are pretty much UK, Louisville, and Memphis. Those three pretty much HAVE to invest big money in basketball because it's where they make their money.

Other schools where coaches are making a lot of money are schools where that coach has earned it through raises.

When Pearl left here he was paid #3 in the conference and top 20 at the time in the country.
 
#144
#144
volinreallife said:
Anything related to coaching sports that pays over a million dollars a year is a good job.

End of Discussion
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Sure. Tell that to Smart, Cuonzo, Marshall, etc.... Exactly.

Fact is the AD will not spend the $$$ to make it worth while to overcome all the garbage surrounding the UT program right now. Sure, throwing some insane number, say $4M, at a candidate will do it....but not for the $1.5M Hart will undoubtedly spend.

This is not rocket science. And yet you people fail to grasp it due to your homerism.

And yes I'm a huge fan (obviously)--just because I can see things objectively instead of the subjectivity 95% of you all adhere to doesn't make me any less of a fan.

Again, it makes me a realist. You should try it.
 
#145
#145
Toughess problem for any Coach coming into UT is recruiting. Memphis kids really don't see any tradition and they are harder to get out of Memphis. East Tn has never been a hotbed of Bball recruits. There has been some limited success in Georgia, but still inconsistency there. No matter who the Coach coming in he has to be able to recruit nationally and some how market UT as the next place to be. That can be a tough sell for some kids.
 
#146
#146
SlyStone said:
Toughess problem for any Coach coming into UT is recruiting. Memphis kids really don't see any tradition and they are harder to get out of Memphis. East Tn has never been a hotbed of Bball recruits. There has been some limited success in Georgia, but still inconsistency there. No matter who the Coach coming in he has to be able to recruit nationally and some how market UT as the next place to be. That can be a tough sell for some kids.
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Disagree with a good portion of this. We're in a very good spot for recruiting and it isn't just good basketball talent in Memphis. Jackson, Clarksville and Nashville areas all regularly produce good Division 1 talent.

Tennessee is generally ranked in the top 10 for basketball talent in high school. So is Georgia.
 
#147
#147
DocVol said:
It's toxic. No coach, even in a remotely good situation at his current job, and even in a smaller school/conference, will take this job right now.

Temper your expectations. And then lower them some more.

I'm not saying the standard should be lowered, but I'm at least expecting another Derek Dooley type hire--as in we are turned down by all the major prospects (Pitino, Smart, Howland, Miller, Marshall,...), then we are turned down by some smaller second tier names, and THEN we will hire someone no one has heard of from a a small mid-major.

Some of you need to gather your marbles that were lost years ago. Tennessee has a chance to be a GREAT job again, but it won't happen this time.

Temper your expectations. Then lower then again. This will prove to help with the VN meltdown when it plays out exactly as above.
Click to expand...

Wrong. TN is between the 3rd and 5th best job in the SEC. Probably the best facilities in the conference. Not a great recruiting base obviously but Atlanta, Charlotte and Nashville are within 3-4 hours
 
#148
#148
armchair said:
We are better than a top 30 job. Easily a top 20-25 job. After the top, say, 15 or so programs in the country, we're as good a job as anybody in the consensus next 10-15, and arguably have more going for us than a lot of the schools in the 15-30 range.
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UCLA, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Georgetown, Kansas, Texas, Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, Memphis, Arizona, Florida

In my mind, these are clearly better programs than UT, mixing history with resources. Then, there is a host of schools in the next tier and you could argue that some are currently better than UT- Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Illinois, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, West Virginia, NC State, Maryland, Pittsburgh, Oklahoma State, and Arkansas is UT of the western division with a national title.

UT is a fringe top 30 basketball program.
 
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#149
#149
VolGee4 said:
UCLA, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Georgetown, Kansas, Texas, Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, Memphis, Arizona, Florida

In my mind, these are clearly better programs than UT, mixing history with resources. Then, there is a host of schools in the next tier and you could argue that some are currently better than UT- Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Illinois, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, West Virginia, NC State, Maryland, Pittsburgh, Oklahoma State, and Arkansas is UT of the western division with a national title.

UT is a fringe top 30 basketball program.
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Careful. No one likes to hear facts in here.
 
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#150
#150
VolArmy74 said:
Disagree with a good portion of this. We're in a very good spot for recruiting and it isn't just good basketball talent in Memphis. Jackson, Clarksville and Nashville areas all regularly produce good Division 1 talent.

Tennessee is generally ranked in the top 10 for basketball talent in high school. So is Georgia.
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There is not enough to go around in a given year. Maybe 4 high level D1 recruits in TN a year. When there are more, they are in Memphis. Look at the rankings for the last decade. The only positive is that the Nashville area seems to be getting more.
 
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