Good article at explaining things

#26
#26
k-town_king said:
What were you saying?
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Essentially a coach that cares about the game in front of them and the university beats the hell out of someone who you know doesn't give two ish about the game, the team, the university or fans in front of them.

ETA: They don't have to be a showman per se (I used that term because of the article) but they do need to care (which is why I used the Summitt example).
 
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#27
#27
I disagree with this article. Fans don't want a show. They want to see a team win CONSISTENTLY against teams they should beat such as a&m and the occasional upset like UVA. It doesn't matter if the team doctor has to check the coaches' pulse on the sideline if he wins....Just win baby!
 
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#28
#28
Tom Izzo. Bill Self. Thad Matta. It's not really hard to think of Final Four coaches who show emotion or personality. I didn't say I wanted a circus, but fun would be welcome.
 
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#29
#29
Using Hubbs reasoning, Bob Knight, Dean Smith, John Wooden, Bill Self, Rick Pitino, Tom Izzo and many others would have never fit in at UT because they they were solid no nonsense basketball coaches and not vaudeville entertainers.
 
#30
#30
This is a generation of Reality TV viewers.
Nuff said?
 
#31
#31
UTProf said:
Essentially a coach that cares about the game in front of them and the university beats the hell out of someone who you know doesn't give two ish about the game, the team, the university or fans in front of them.

ETA: They don't have to be a showman per se (I used that term because of the article) but they do need to care (which is why I used the Summitt example).
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Martin cared but that wasn't good enough. They wanted him to get thrown out of games and go crowd surf the fans like Bruce.
 
#32
#32
VolArmy74 said:
Actually not a good article at all.

A) Green was ran out because he was a straight up ******* to the fan base. To the point of contempt. He was also far more successful than Martin, so combining their records is Hubbs trying to sell a bill of goods vs what Martin actually was here.

B) You need to win here. If you can do that and not insult the fans, you'll be fine. DeVoe was loved here when he was winning. Stokley was packed. He had the Anti-Mears personality.

C) Martin bailed. He wasn't fired. He quit, ran away. Saw the writing on the wall. Cashed in his chips. Any other cliche is fitting. His recruiting didn't have us in a position to maintain.

D) Most of the fan fervor had calmed down once we went on the winning streak. The fans didn't want sweet 16 Martin fired. They wanted "here we go again" Martin fired. Even his most ardent supporters on here said they were done after A&M pt 2.

I don't give one damn about unicycles or chest painting. I does help to do things like give a shout out to students. To reach back to the past and bring in former Vol legends. To be personable and get guest slots on shows like PTI. That raises your profile and aids in recruiting.

Recruit good players. Win basketball games. Don't commit dumbass violations. Don't go out of your way to insult the fan base.

Do those things and you'll be loved here. Lose games, fail to make the NCAAs year after year, you'll feel heat. It happens at every single school in every major conference that gives a whit about basketball.
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I think he has a very good point about entertainment. UT is a football school, and people attend for the event but also have a passion for winning. UT has some casual basketball fans. Winning is very important, but you also must have an element of entertainment and of showmanship. In this day and age of technology and people deciding where to spend money, you need a brand, you need a product, and you need marketing. You have to have a coach who at least participates in some of this.

I agree that winning is a key factor, but Jerry Green turned on the fans because he was catching heat for not doing better. He did it because he was tired of the criticism. We can argue all day about his true coaching (or lack thereof), but he and Martin are good examples of above average coaches who couldn't thrive at UT. We need a good coach, but we also need a guy who is charismatic.
 
#33
#33
Roustabout said:
If UT didn't hire Cuonzo I can just about assure he'd still be at Misery State. The ONLY reason they hired him was the uncertainty of NCAA issues at the time.
He had an 11th hour run and lucked out on the draw. UT can do better.
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You are incorrect.

In fact, there is a very good chance he would have been the hire at Mizzou
 
#35
#35
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
I disagree with this article. Fans don't want a show. They want to see a team win CONSISTENTLY against teams they should beat such as a&m and the occasional upset like UVA. It doesn't matter if the team doctor has to check the coaches' pulse on the sideline if he wins....Just win baby!
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If that were true Green should still be here. He was successful coming off a very bad time in our program. It's about more than show, I agree, but they do have to care or at least act like it or eventually a fan base will show them the door. However, I don't think it has to be unicycles or painted chest but yeah a pulse is needed.
 
#36
#36
goodnight_vol said:
Tom Izzo. Bill Self. Thad Matta. It's not really hard to think of Final Four coaches who show emotion or personality. I didn't say I wanted a circus, but fun would be welcome.
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Emotion and showmanship and charisma are different things. They show emotion but so did Martin when it counted. None of those coaches are getting thrown out of a game vs state a&m university.
 
#37
#37
k-town_king said:
Martin cared but that wasn't good enough. They wanted him to get thrown out of games and go crowd surf the fans like Bruce.
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He didn't show he cared until the tourney - people responded to that Cuonzo and had he been that Cuonzo all along people would've never gotten half as angry with him during the bad times.

Cuonzo was a stoic guy. And while yeah, I do believe he cared at one point, he didn't show it until then.
 
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#40
#40
UTProf said:
He didn't show he cared until the tourney - people responded to that Cuonzo and had he been that Cuonzo all along people would've never gotten half as angry with him during the bad times.

Cuonzo was a stoic guy. And while yeah, I do believe he cared at one point, he didn't show it until then.
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You are certainly entitled to your opinion. How did he not act like he cared about the team the school or winning?
 
#41
#41
UTProf said:
If that were true Green should still be here. He was successful coming off a very bad time in our program. It's about more than show, I agree, but they do have to care or at least act like it or eventually a fan base will show them the door. However, I don't think it has to be unicycles or painted chest but yeah a pulse is needed.
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So it would "bother" you if UT's coach never got out of his seat or raised his voice if UT consistently won 25 games a season and routinely made the ncaa tourney?
 
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#43
#43
VolGee4 said:
Where did you get that? This says otherwise.

Donovan's personality a hit with top recruits | Amarillo.com | Amarillo Globe-News
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Cuonzo Martin apparently has a great personality with recruits too, but people here did nothing but complain for three years about how lackluster and bland he was. Donovan doesn't do any of the cheerleading and carnival-barking that Hubbs writes about. Donovan boringly markets his program to a football-centric fanbase by going to the elite eight almost every year.
 
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#45
#45
drewtigeralum said:
Martin was one of the hot up and coming coaches when he came to U.T.

He had been instrumental in helping build a Purdue roster that had 3 NBA draft picks and was an Robbie Hummel A.C.L. tear away from something big. He was also instrumental in recruiting Carl Landry, so that would be a 4th NBA player.

He had taken Missouri St., a perennial loser, to a conference championship in 3 years.

He was a respected member of the coaching community and ran a clean program.

He was getting a job somewhere. For all involved, it was a shame that he ended up at U.T.
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The coach before Martin had a winning program at MST. Martin has only been to one tourney and he lucked out getting there as a play in seed, kind bracket, etc. Martin is not a coach by any means and it will show at Cal.
 
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#46
#46
Vercingetorix said:
A gregarious, energetic coach who gets the fans involved is great. My issue is with Hubbs's stance that that's the primary characteristic Hart should be looking for above all else.
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I don't think he's saying that at all. He's saying the Tennessee program needs a brand, and he's right.
 
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#47
#47
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
So it would "bother" you if UT's coach never got out of his seat or raised his voice if UT consistently won 25 games a season and routinely made the ncaa tourney?
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I said mediocre and also mentioned emotion, did I not? However, what makes you think we have to choose.

You're reading in what isn't there.
 
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#48
#48
k-town_king said:
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. How did he not act like he cared about the team the school or winning?
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He did at the end. However, for the most part, Martin failed at connecting to the fanbase. That's not about me that's about him and the fanbase as a whole. His personality was stoic not his fault but it is what it is. It's really not debatable that far too many fans just never connected to that stoicism.
 
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#49
#49
knowthevols said:
The coach before Martin had a winning program at MST. Martin has only been to one tourney and he lucked out getting there as a play in seed, kind bracket, etc. Martin is not a coach by any means and it will show at Cal.
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You can believe what you want, but disputing facts is kind of silly. Martin was an up and coming coach when U.T. hired him. He had several job opportunities, including the previously mentioned Missouri job. You no liking him doesn't change history.
 
#50
#50
UTProf said:
He did at the end. However, for the most part, Martin failed at connecting to the fanbase. That's not about me that's about him and the fanbase as a whole. His personality was stoic not his fault but it is what it is. It's really not debatable that far too many fans just never connected to that stoicism.
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Maybe they didn't connect because they didn't want to and never liked him. He showed he cared about UT. He just wasn't gonna be some loud mouth clown.
 
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