TN HB-1547 on 'student religious freedom'

#276
#276
Grand Vol said:
So are you implying we should just let children do anything they want?

Be careful here Merc, that's a slippery slope you are on.
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Never said that. I think religion/spirituality are complex ideas and young children shouldn't be pushed one way or another until they're equipped to deal with those ideas.
 
#277
#277
MercyPercy said:
Never said that. I think religion/spirituality are complex ideas and young children shouldn't be pushed one way or another until they're equipped to deal with those ideas.
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So the good lessons learned in Sunday school should not be implemented until a later age? Well, what age? When should children determine if they can handle such complexity as "do unto others" or "do not steal?"

We ain't talking about complex religious theory here, but basic rules of life that could and should be applied by everyone. Are those not needed especially in today's world?
 
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#278
#278
Grand Vol said:
So the good lessons learned in Sunday school should not be implemented until a later age? Well, what age? When should children determine if they can handle such complexity as "do unto others" or "do not steal?"

We ain't talking about complex religious theory here, but basic rules of life that could and should be applied by everyone. Are those not needed especially in today's world?
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Concepts like do not steal exist outside of religion.

Telling a small child they're going to burn in hell for eternity if they don't behave a certain way is different than telling that to an adult. A child can be irreparably shaped by the more crude concepts of some religions. They're too young to comprehend these things and make their own decisions as they haven't been educated in other subjects yet, like a thorough learning in the sciences.
 
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#279
#279
utvolpj said:
how many teach their kids the good and bad of every religion and allow them to figure out the one that suits them the best (even if that's no religion at all)? How many expose them only to the one they subscribe to and tell them it's the only right one?
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How would a child be able to hear the good and bad of religion if parents such as yourself try to shield their children from hearing anything about God?

This works both ways. You cannot argue that you give your child the opportunity to think for themselves unless you give them the opportunity to hear about God. Keeping them from learning about God can be argued to be brainwashing as some on here are saying teaching a kid about God is brainwashing.

You and some others are being very hypocritical on this issue. Don't be so scared. Your child is not going to become religious unless they chose to do so. NO ONE, I repeat NO ONE can be forced to believe in God.
 
#280
#280
Gramps said:
How would a child be able to hear the good and bad of religion if parents such as yourself try to shield their children from hearing anything about God?

This works both ways. You cannot argue that you give your child the opportunity to think for themselves unless you give them the opportunity to hear about God. Keeping them from learning about God can be argued to be brainwashing as some on here are saying teaching a kid about God is brainwashing.

You and some others are being very hypocritical on this issue. Don't be so scared. Your child is not going to become religious unless they chose to do so. NO ONE, I repeat NO ONE can be forced to believe in God.
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Liar liar pants on fire. Indoctrination is the manipulation of vulnerable minds.
 
#281
#281
Grand Vol said:
I have a question related to this topic, but slightly OT. How many people actually believe in the young earth theory these days? Has there ever been a serious study or poll done?
And I'm not talking about Bart around the corner that screams about science trumping religion. I mean an actual poll taken with that specific question in mind.
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No, but science does trump pseudoscience. I’ve stated repeatedly that there is no intrinsic conflict between science and religion. It’s the whackos denying any aspect of reality that doesn’t fall in line with their worldview creating these conflicts.
Grand Vol said:
No, the article said God created humans in the past 10,000 years. Stop cherry picking the numbers out of the article.
So again, has there ever been a study or survey done in people's belief in the young earth theory?
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Do you really think any of those people that believe humans were created by god in the last 10,000 years simultaneously accept a 4.5 billion year old earth?
PJ’s figures are consistent with the polls I’ve seen. I know it’s hard to believe, but ~40% of Americans really are young-earth creationists.
Velo Vol said:
Can't wait for the first pro-Sharia law speech at a graduation.
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volprof said:
The Christian theocrats who pushed this through will flip their everlasting minds.
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Hahaha this^^ will never happen. We all know what the christian right means by ‘religious freedom’:

Christian theocracy

volprof said:
The more I think about this, how would this law even be legal? I'm thinking the theocrat cohort knows this and knows that (for this reason) Haslam will probably not sign it into law. The end result? Politician X looks like a million bucks to Johnny and Sally for standing up for and "protecting" their religious rights.
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volprof said:
I'm telling you, if this bill is signed (which I don't think Haslam will), it's lawsuit city, buddy. Both students suiting teachers based upon what they see as poor grades regarding assignments in which they used their religious ideals unnecessarily and teachers suiting the state regarding their rights as educators. It's a legal nightmare waiting to happen.
Fortunately, the bill/law is completely unconstitutional, which is why a) Haslam probably won't sign it, and b) even if he does, the Supreme Court will ultimately strike it down.
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Volprof you’ve hit the nail on the head again. Like the “teach the controversy” bill, this legislation accomplishes nothing besides opening the state to lawsuits. It’s a big waste of time and taxpayer money.
 
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#283
#283
MercyPercy said:
Concepts like do not steal exist outside of religion.

Telling a small child they're going to burn in hell for eternity if they don't behave a certain way is different than telling that to an adult. A child can be irreparably shaped by the more crude concepts of some religions. They're too young to comprehend these things and make their own decisions as they haven't been educated in other subjects yet, like a thorough learning in the sciences.
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As a 2nd grade Sunday School teacher this one brings a chuckle.
 
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#284
#284
SIAP but is this not a result of the girl at Hendersonville HS that didn't go to the mosque having to write a paper and then getting a bad grade for espousing her beliefs instead of just agreeing with the misinformation handed to her by the teacher? Trying to remember exactly what went on there.
 
#286
#286
BartW said:
No, but science does trump pseudoscience. I’ve stated repeatedly that there is no intrinsic conflict between science and religion. It’s the whackos denying any aspect of reality that doesn’t fall in line with their worldview creating these conflicts.
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Actually, Bart was just a random name I pulled lol. That wasn't actually meant for you
 
#288
#288
MercyPercy said:
Concepts like do not steal exist outside of religion.

Telling a small child they're going to burn in hell for eternity if they don't behave a certain way is different than telling that to an adult. A child can be irreparably shaped by the more crude concepts of some religions. They're too young to comprehend these things and make their own decisions as they haven't been educated in other subjects yet, like a thorough learning in the sciences.
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You must have had a seriously mean church. I didn't start hearing the burning in hell bit until I was about 12.

And I noticed you said "some religions." But what would be an example of a bad religion?
 
#289
#289
Grand Vol said:
You must have had a seriously mean church. I didn't start hearing the burning in hell bit until I was about 12.

And I noticed you said "some religions." But what would be an example of a bad religion?
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You didn't go to church before you were 12?

By some religions, I was referring to those with eternal torture as punishment, but I still hold the opinion that spirituality and participation in religiosity are things that one must figure out on their own accord once they have all the pertinent information in order to make an informed decision.
 
#292
#292
MercyPercy said:
Concepts like do not steal exist outside of religion.

Telling a small child they're going to burn in hell for eternity if they don't behave a certain way is different than telling that to an adult. A child can be irreparably shaped by the more crude concepts of some religions. They're too young to comprehend these things and make their own decisions as they haven't been educated in other subjects yet, like a thorough learning in the sciences.
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I don't remember that from my childhood. I mostly remember playing and coloring in Sunday school. No wonder your so screwed up, that would have scared me too.
 
#293
#293
MercyPercy said:
You didn't go to church before you were 12?

By some religions, I was referring to those with eternal torture as punishment, but I still hold the opinion that spirituality and participation in religiosity are things that one must figure out on their own accord once they have all the pertinent information in order to make an informed decision.
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No, the minister where I went as a child wasn't into the whole fiery rhetoric bit. He was pretty calm for the most part, but highly knowledgeable.

And you just described the majority of the religions on the planet. Judeo-Christian-Islamic beliefs (the predominate religions) are all about eternal burning.
 
#296
#296
BearCat204 said:
Same here, I think this bill is a step in that direction.
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I think there are a lot of people making a mountain out of a molehill here. All it says is students cannot be discriminated against because they display a particular religious view. And that could be Christian, Buddhist, Scientology or Druid beliefs.

But as normal, there are some on here screaming about the implementation of religion in schools although this bill protects ALL students and ALL religions from a teachers discrimination. So a student comes in with a viewpoint from Wicca, the Christian teacher cannot mark them down for expressing that particular belief.
 
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#299
#299
Grand Vol said:
I think there are a lot of people making a mountain out of a molehill here. All it says is students cannot be discriminated against because they display a particular religious view. And that could be Christian, Buddhist, Scientology or Druid beliefs.

But as normal, there are some on here screaming about the implementation of religion in schools although this bill protects ALL students and ALL religions from a teachers discrimination. So a student comes in with a viewpoint from Wicca, the Christian teacher cannot mark them down for expressing that particular belief.
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That is how I understand the bill.
 
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