TN HB-1547 on 'student religious freedom'

#252
#252
Grand Vol said:
As if Christianity is the only religion to ever do so.
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Of course it isn't. And I'm not even sure why hog was talking to me about history like that as if I've said don't talk about religion at all in history class. Why would I be against students knowing the motivations of figures in historical events?
 
#253
#253
MercyPercy said:
Come on hog, you know his well it would go over in a Tennessee HS if that happened?

Puhlease.
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Maybe if neither side was constantly trying to ram their beliefs down the throats of the other it could. Sadly just looking at this thread you may be right.
 
#254
#254
Am I the only one that noticed this:

Septic said:
Most religious parents do not offer the choice on whether or not their kids attend sunday school, vacation babble school.

I would argue that's not letting children think for themselves.

I've taught my kids to question everything, not to assume what every adult tells them is accurate and to use reason, logic and evidence as their guide to forming an opinion.
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Conflicts with this:

Septic said:
No I don't, what?

My kids will have plenty of time learn about religion when they are older and are able to apply reason and logic.

They can then make the decision on whether it's right for them, then. My kids are prepubescent and not capable of distinguishing what "is right for them".

Scaring the crap out of kids by ramming jeebus down their throats and promising an eternity burning in hell for not accepting is nothing short of abuse.
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In the manner that you teach your children to question everything and use logic blah, blah, don't accept anything. But you turn around and say your children aren't old enough to use logic to determine if they want to believe in an almighty being?

So basically you are saying you've made the decision for them already as they cannot determine for themselves.
 
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#255
#255
hog88 said:
Good for you. We didn't give our kids the option to make decisions like that and wouldn't change a thing.

Now that they are grown they can do what they will.
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It's not good for me. It's good for them.

Out of curiosity, are your kids christians, muslims, buddhists, some other religion or do they identify as none?
 
#256
#256
Septic said:
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on bible belt conservative politicians to jump on board with something that would promote anything other than christianity.
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Why not take another tact and instead of trying to eliminate all religion try to get all religion included?
 
#257
#257
Grand Vol said:
You know, your wording here is really annoying. Kids being "forced" to do this and "mandated" to do that.

You parents obviously never forced you to do anything did they?
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Is forced incorrect? I didn't want to clean my room or go to church but I was forced to do both anyway. :)
 
#258
#258
MercyPercy said:
Of course it isn't. And I'm not even sure why hog was talking to me about history like that as if I've said don't talk about religion at all in history class. Why would I be against students knowing the motivations of figures in historical events?
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Read some of your kids history books. The motivations are not included because they would then have to discuss religion.
 
#259
#259
MercyPercy said:
Is forced incorrect? I didn't want to clean my room or go to church but I was forced to do both anyway. :)
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So are you implying we should just let children do anything they want?

Be careful here Merc, that's a slippery slope you are on.
 
#260
#260
Septic said:
It's not good for me. It's good for them.

Out of curiosity, are your kids christians, muslims, buddhists, some other religion or do they identify as none?
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Christian but only our oldest attends church regularly.
 
#262
#262
hog88 said:
Read some of your kids history books. The motivations are not included because they would then have to discuss religion.
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I'm pretty sure we didn't get too in depth into motivations of the crusades in high school, but that's because I went to a private Catholic school, and, imagine that- they didn't want to talk about the dirty stuff.
 
#263
#263
utvolpj said:
it was to anyone who claims to let their kids make their own decisions while still forcing them to a service every Sunday morning. Kids are quite impressionable and presenting only one belief skews the score a bit
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At the same time, you are trying to shield your kids from hearing about God from other kids. Is that not keeping them from being allowed to make their own decisions?
You scared they may want to be religious, oh the horrors.
 
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#264
#264
Grand Vol said:
Am I the only one that noticed this:



Conflicts with this:



In the manner that you teach your children to question everything and use logic blah, blah, don't accept anything. But you turn around and say your children aren't old enough to use logic to determine if they want to believe in an almighty being?

So basically you are saying you've made the decision for them already as they cannot determine for themselves.
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For now, yes. When they are old enough to grasp the concepts they will and should learn about all religions.

You wouldn't teach your kid where the safety is on a H&K Compact .40 then hand it to them and walk away, would you?

Logic and reason take time to develop as evidenced by a few windowlickers right here in these forums.
 
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#267
#267
Septic said:
For now, yes. When they are old enough to grasp the concepts they will and should learn about all religions.

You wouldn't teach your kid where the safety is on a H&K Compact .40 then hand it to them and walk away, would you?

Logic and reason take time to develop as evidenced by a few windowlickers right here in these forums.
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So if your kids asked to start going to church, what would you tell them?

And the firearms analogy is pretty silly BTW.
 
#269
#269
MercyPercy said:
My point is that his biased experience is irrelevant because if it was any other religion his teacher was advocating and he was still a Christian, he would have not enjoyed it.
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Enjoy it?

I didn't enjoy a lot of things regarding school but that didn't change what I believed.

That was my point.
 
#270
#270
utvolpj said:
that's great but what if I didn't want to be forced to listen a biblical prayer every morning since I wasn't a Christian? Were the kids allowed to opt out or were other religions allowed to get involved? If not then I see zero problem with ending that tradition.
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What do you do when a prayer is said at a UT football game ?
 
#271
#271
Grand Vol said:
So if your kids asked to start going to church, what would you tell them?

And the firearms analogy is pretty silly BTW.
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Fortunately, they haven't - so I'll cross that bridge if I get to it.

I'd be willing to bet that they'd start calling B.S. almost immediately and be asked not to come back.

I suppose the firearms analogy would be silly to someone who is unable to see the harm caused by organized religion.
 
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#273
#273
Septic said:
Fortunately, they haven't - so I'll cross that bridge if I get to it.

I'd be willing to bet that they'd start calling B.S. almost immediately and be asked not to come back.

I suppose the firearms analogy would be silly to someone who is unable to see the harm caused by organized religion.
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You confuse me with someone who is a proponent of organized religion, of which I am not. But your analogy is silly because it implies a parent would be irresponsible enough to let a child go wielding a handgun unsupervised. And somehow this translates into letting a child go unsupervised in matters of religion and go out and cause extreme harm to someone. And when was the last time an eight year old kid caused irreparable harm on anything from something they learned in church?

So hence, your point is quite silly. Probably best to drop it, it's not going to get any better for you.

But you already said your children are not old enough to be able to determine for themselves, so how do you know for certain they would be asked not to come back? But the question could be phrased differently I suppose...

Have you ever asked your children if they want to go to church? We're making this all about the kids and what they want to do, have you ever posed that question of whether they might like to attend?
 
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#274
#274
Septic said:
Fortunately, they haven't - so I'll cross that bridge if I get to it.

I'd be willing to bet that they'd start calling B.S. almost immediately and be asked not to come back.

I suppose the firearms analogy would be silly to someone who is unable to see the harm caused by organized religion.
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I agree organized religion has caused a tremendous amount of harm but has also done a tremendous amount of good. Why focus on one but not the other?
 
#275
#275
MercyPercy said:
Did you force your kids to go to church Gramps?
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No I did not. My children chose to go with my mom to church. They liked her church more than mine or I should say they liked the other kids at her church. I offer to take my grandchildren with me any time they want to go, 2 go regularly, 1 on occasion, 2 do not go at all.. I believe all kids need to hear about God. It has to be their decision if they believe in God or not but I do believe every child should have the opportunity and not be shielded from God because mom and dad do not believe.
 
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