TN HB-1547 on 'student religious freedom'

#226
#226
Gramps said:
When I went to public school the teachers read the Bible and said a prayer and pledge of allegiance every morning. That was of course before our liberal government passed laws to not allow it. We still had time to learn English, Arithmetic, History, Spelling, Geography and still had time for physical education and recess.
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I doubt you'd have such fond memories if your teacher had read you the quran every morning and made y'all praise Allah.
 
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#227
#227
hog88 said:
I agree with your very last statement but the problem has been the complete stripping of religion from school. To fully learn history you need to not only know who and when you also need to understand the why. Religion has been the why in a great many historical events.
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He speaks the truth.

Find a part of world history that is filled with death, destruction and war. Viola! Religion!
 
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#228
#228
MercyPercy said:
You can learn about religion in school without participating in religiosity. I don't think anyone is advocating wiping the effects of religion from history classes.


But we're talking about science class.
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Haven't had kids in HS yet? A teacher explaining the why of the crusades which includes the beliefs of the crusaders is important.
 
#229
#229
Septic said:
Most religious parents do not offer the choice on whether or not their kids attend sunday school, vacation babble school.

I would argue that's not letting children think for themselves.

I've taught my kids to question everything, not to assume what every adult tells them is accurate and to use reason, logic and evidence as their guide to forming an opinion.
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No you do not. If you did you would not be objecting for your kids to hears other kids discuss religion. Are you scared they may hear something about God that may draw them to live a religious life? You do not want them to hear about in order for them to make their own decision.
 
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#230
#230
hog88 said:
Haven't had kids in HS yet? A teacher explaining the why of the crusades which includes the beliefs of the crusaders is important.
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You can talk about why the Crusades occurred, I never said you couldn't. By all means, explain to the children why Christianity caused them to murder thousands and thousands of people.
 
#232
#232
Gramps said:
No you do not. If you did you would not be objecting for your kids to hears other kids discuss religion. Are you scared they may hear something about God that may draw them to live a religious life? You do not want them to hear about in order for them to make their own decision.
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Did you force your kids to go to church Gramps?
 
#233
#233
Gramps said:
No you do not. If you did you would not be objecting for your kids to hears other kids discuss religion. Are you scared they may hear something about God that may draw them to live a religious life? You do not want them to hear about in order for them to make their own decision.
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how many teach their kids the good and bad of every religion and allow them to figure out the one that suits them the best (even if that's no religion at all)? How many expose them only to the one they subscribe to and tell them it's the only right one?
 
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#235
#235
Gramps said:
No you do not. If you did you would not be objecting for your kids to hears other kids discuss religion. Are you scared they may hear something about God that may draw them to live a religious life? You do not want them to hear about in order for them to make their own decision.
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No I don't, what?

My kids will have plenty of time learn about religion when they are older and are able to apply reason and logic.

They can then make the decision on whether it's right for them, then. My kids are prepubescent and not capable of distinguishing what "is right for them".

Scaring the crap out of kids by ramming jeebus down their throats and promising an eternity burning in hell for not accepting is nothing short of abuse.
 
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#236
#236
utvolpj said:
that's great but what if I didn't want to be forced to listen a biblical prayer every morning since I wasn't a Christian? Were the kids allowed to opt out or were other religions allowed to get involved? If not then I see zero problem with ending that tradition


actually I don't see that as a problem

see, I can grasp the fact that a religion would consider a site holy. I can even understand what supposed holy acts were performed on that site and their importance at the time. Now, if we can avoid discussing whether or not those acts were truly magical and worthy of worship and obedience then I think we can come to an understanding. What are the odds we can avoid that in a HS class in TN?
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Chances are not good but it's the fault of both sides. You have the vehemently anti-religion crowd who raises hell at the mere mention of religion, especially Christianity in any circumstance and the zealots who refuse to discuss anything without painting it with a religious brush or being offended at the mention of a competing belief. Both are wrong and hurting education.

You are correct, this bill is pandering, why do that? The majority of Tennesseans are somewhat religious and probably over 80% identify themselves as Christian. We have seen ruling after ruling (yes sensationalized by the media) stripping traditions and customs out of school. This pisses people off, even people like me who are not involved in church or particularly religious.
 
#237
#237
MercyPercy said:
You can talk about why the Crusades occurred, I never said you couldn't. By all means, explain to the children why Christianity caused them to murder thousands and thousands of people.
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They should, 100% should.
 
#239
#239
utvolpj said:
how many teach their kids the good and bad of every religion and allow them to figure out the one that suits them the best (even if that's no religion at all)? How many expose them only to the one they subscribe to and tell them it's the only right one?
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What does it matter? If it's important to you that kids are exposed to various religions you should support mandatory religious studies in school. That way all kids are exposed to various religions.
 
#240
#240
Did anyone stop to think that if a teacher presents a topic properly and then tests on that presentation that this won't be an issue?
 
#241
#241
hog88 said:
What does it matter? If it's important to you that kids are exposed to various religions you should support mandatory religious studies in school. That way all kids are exposed to various religions.
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I would only support that if I thought organized religion was a positive. It also has nothing to do with their school education
 
#242
#242
MercyPercy said:
My point is that his biased experience is irrelevant because if it was any other religion his teacher was advocating and he was still a Christian, he would have not enjoyed it.
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Why? I for one am interested in other cultures and beliefs.

Sorry your intolerance blinds you.
 
#243
#243
Septic said:
No I don't, what?

My kids will have plenty of time learn about religion when they are older and are able to apply reason and logic.

They can then make the decision on whether it's right for them, then. My kids are prepubescent and not capable of distinguishing what "is right for them".

Scaring the crap out of kids by ramming jeebus down their throats and promising an eternity burning in hell for not accepting is nothing short of abuse.
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What does Christmas mean daddy?
 
#244
#244
MercyPercy said:
You can talk about why the Crusades occurred, I never said you couldn't. By all means, explain to the children why Christianity caused them to murder thousands and thousands of people.
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As if Christianity is the only religion to ever do so.
 
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#245
#245
Septic said:
No I don't, what?

My kids will have plenty of time learn about religion when they are older and are able to apply reason and logic.

They can then make the decision on whether it's right for them, then. My kids are prepubescent and not capable of distinguishing what "is right for them".

Scaring the crap out of kids by ramming jeebus down their throats and promising an eternity burning in hell for not accepting is nothing short of abuse.
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Good for you. We didn't give our kids the option to make decisions like that and wouldn't change a thing.

Now that they are grown they can do what they will.
 
#247
#247
hog88 said:
What does it matter? If it's important to you that kids are exposed to various religions you should support mandatory religious studies in school. That way all kids are exposed to various religions.
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I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on bible belt conservative politicians to jump on board with something that would promote anything other than christianity.
 
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#249
#249
MercyPercy said:
Did you force your kids to go to church Gramps?
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You know, your wording here is really annoying. Kids being "forced" to do this and "mandated" to do that.

You parents obviously never forced you to do anything did they?
 
#250
#250
utvolpj said:
I would only support that if I thought organized religion was a positive. It also has nothing to do with their school education
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So you chastise those who do not allow their children to be exposed to other religions but do not want yours exposed to any? Where are you any better?
 
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