TN HB-1547 on 'student religious freedom'

#151
#151
volinbham said:
Speculation. So what if they take it to the courts? The law doesn't say that person will win.

I disagree that a student has no business injecting their religion in their expression in any venue. There is nothing sacred about school that overrides one's 1st amendment rights.

Like I said, I don't know that we need this law as it should already be SOP but that doesn't mean students aren't currently being discriminated against in some cases.
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Id be curious to see what the thoughts would if you removed "religion" (of any type) and replaced it with personal beliefs.
 
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#152
#152
utvolpj said:
maybe they shouldn't but the first person marked down because their 6000yo earth theory is useless will take to the courts. It opens up an avenue to inject religion where it has no business being
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Religious settings not appropriate for art?
 
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#153
#153
hog88 said:
It's called family time, what's wrong with that?
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no it's called church. At the church I attended you only sat with your parents for a couple of years. Before/after that you were in a children's service or with your friends

hog88 said:
How about a free flow of ideas and allowing kids to explain beliefs or disagreement without judgement?
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sure, in an elective class devoted to religion. Or they can do it before/after school
 
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#154
#154
utvolpj said:
why should the courts be forced to address grading issues? I just see this adding an unneeded complexity to the learning process that is already failing.

it just addresses a non-existent issue
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How? Outside of reactionaries on both sides? If tasked with writing a paper on the theory of evolution where would religion be applicable?

Now if asked to write a paper on the fact of evolution I could see religious descent in the paper.
 
#155
#155
hog88 said:
How? Outside of reactionaries on both sides? If tasked with writing a paper on the theory of evolution where would religion be applicable?

Now if asked to write a paper on the fact of evolution I could see religious descent in the paper.
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it's not applicable in a scientific paper
 
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#157
#157
utvolpj said:
no it's called church. At the church I attended you only sat with your parents for a couple of years. Before/after that you were in a children's service or with your friends



sure, in an elective class devoted to religion. Or they can do it before/after school
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Your aurgument about kids and church is asinine. A parent is 100% responsible for the child, it's none of your concern wether they are forced to attend church. There is a lot worse places.

Again asinine, it should be in subjects covering our exsistance, every theory should be expressed. Math? Where in the heck would religion come into play? English? Same question?
 
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#160
#160
hog88 said:
Ever hear of word problems?

Never mind, I've read several of your posts it's obvious you haven't.
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Lmao

Where did you graduate from again?

The only thing obvious here is your complete lack of understanding of what a learning environment is supposed to be.
 
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#161
#161
hog88 said:
Your aurgument about kids and church is asinine. A parent is 100% responsible for the child, it's none of your concern wether they are forced to attend church. There is a lot worse places.
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I never said a parent didn't have that control. What I said is don't claim you're letting your child make their own decisions while also forcing them to attend services ever Sunday. If it was truly about educating them on religion as a whole they would also be taken to experience a mosque, synagogue, etc. The act of only taking them to your church is telling them what is right and correct.

but I've never said parents don't have that right

hog88 said:
Again asinine, it should be in subjects covering our exsistance, every theory should be expressed. Math? Where in the heck would religion come into play? English? Same question?
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as I stated before, some elective religion class where those who wish to discuss it can choose to gather.


hog88 said:
If discussing a theory as a fact it absolutely is.
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you don't discuss a belief system with no evidence besides faith during a scientific discussion. Should the flying spaghetti monster also be presented as an alternative theory?
 
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#163
#163
utvolpj said:
I never said a parent didn't have that control. What I said is don't claim you're letting your child make their own decisions while also forcing them to attend services ever Sunday. If it was truly about educating them on religion as a whole they would also be taken to experience a mosque, synagogue, etc. The act of only taking them to your church is telling them what is right and correct.

but I've never said parents don't have that right



as I stated before, some elective religion class where those who wish to discuss it can choose to gather.
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^^^^^ is this toward me? If so it's a very large assumption- and you would be wrong.
 
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#164
#164
I have a question related to this topic, but slightly OT. How many people actually believe in the young earth theory these days? Has there ever been a serious study or poll done?

And I'm not talking about Bart around the corner that screams about science trumping religion. I mean an actual poll taken with that specific question in mind.
 
#166
#166
Grand Vol said:
I have a question related to this topic, but slightly OT. How many people actually believe in the young earth theory these days? Has there ever been a serious study or poll done?

And I'm not talking about Bart around the corner that screams about science trumping religion. I mean an actual poll taken with that specific question in mind.
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Not that I've seen. I don't believe in it either.
 
#168
#168
Obsessed said:
^^^^^ is this toward me? If so it's a very large assumption- and you would be wrong.
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it was to anyone who claims to let their kids make their own decisions while still forcing them to a service every Sunday morning. Kids are quite impressionable and presenting only one belief skews the score a bit
 
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#169
#169
Grand Vol said:
I have a question related to this topic, but slightly OT. How many people actually believe in the young earth theory these days? Has there ever been a serious study or poll done?

And I'm not talking about Bart around the corner that screams about science trumping religion. I mean an actual poll taken with that specific question in mind.
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the number is large enough to be concerning

In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

Highly religious Americans are more likely to be Republican than those who are less religious, which helps explain the relationship between partisanship and beliefs about human origins. The major distinction is between Republicans and everyone else. While 58% of Republicans believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years, 39% of independents and 41% of Democrats agree.
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Four in 10 Americans Believe in Strict Creationism

Four in 10 Americans, slightly fewer today than in years past, believe God created humans in their present form about 10,000 years ago
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#171
#171
utvolpj said:
it was to anyone who claims to let their kids make their own decisions while still forcing them to a service every Sunday morning. Kids are quite impressionable and presenting only one belief skews the score a bit
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So the other five days a week in school that they get taught science and potentially evolutionary theory don't count?

Are you implying the State that mandates the curriculum of the schools is the end all, be all of what children should learn?
 
#172
#172
Grand Vol said:
So the other five days a week in school that they get taught science and potentially evolutionary theory don't count?

Are you implying the State that mandates the curriculum of the schools is the end all, be all of what children should learn?
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I think the current schools are mostly crap in the way they teach but that doesn't make the material any less valid.

if you want your children to learn a religious belief system there's no need to do that in state schools
 
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#173
#173
My point is pretty simple. Use science class to teach actual science and try not to let it become a debate session where students spend half the class arguing and teachers have to worry about how they grade papers because they might offend some sensibilities.

Have an elective religion course where students can get behind a podium and talk about whatever the hell they want.

American education is one of the biggest problems with this country right now. Particularly in the science/math areas. All this allows is more nonsense taking up valuable learning time.
 
#175
#175
utvolpj said:
I never said a parent didn't have that control. What I said is don't claim you're letting your child make their own decisions while also forcing them to attend services ever Sunday. If it was truly about educating them on religion as a whole they would also be taken to experience a mosque, synagogue, etc. The act of only taking them to your church is telling them what is right and correct.

but I've never said parents don't have that right



as I stated before, some elective religion class where those who wish to discuss it can choose to gather.




you don't discuss a belief system with no evidence besides faith during a scientific discussion. Should the flying spaghetti monster also be presented as an alternative theory?
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I got you on the attending church, I never said anything about letting a kid choose, we didn't.

I see no need in an elective religion class, religion is an intragal part of subjects such as history. Your cheating the kid by not discussing the subject. If discussing macro evolution, it should never be presented as a fact, it is not! If presented and tought properly as a theory, religion shouldn't be an issue.
 
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