Why Butch Jones had nothing and EVERYTHING to do w/the loss to Bama

[Rushin Orange Collusion]

Why wouldn't Butch enjoy a victory cigar? He can puff on that stoggie and think, I'm the reason Alabama whopped Tennessee so badly!

 

[Rushin Orange Collusion]

Tennessee ought to file suit against Lyle for smoking in Neyland in open violation of University policy which, as a former employee, he knew. Maybe ask for an amount in the neighborhood of the remaining millions in his severance package, plus attorney fees.

 

[Orangeredblooded]

What you are seeing now are nominally good recruiting classes that have been gutted via attrition and are demoralized. I can't name specific guys because I'm not at practice or in the locker or meeting rooms, but there almost certainly are a lot of demoralized, disillusioned guys on that team. When they committed in 2015 or 2016, they didn't sign up to be in this position as juniors and seniors.

Butch was a good recruiter, but even his abilities in that area were overrated. I believe only 11 guys from that 2015 class remained on the team, and it ain't because they were all so good they left as juniors and got drafted. That class should be forming the core of the team now, but a ton of them are gone.

I've seen several posts about how Jones was/is a good recruiter, and yet have also seen just as many posts that state he didn't recruit to his system, just went by stars attached to the player. If he only went by stars, then he couldn't be classified as a good recruiter. It takes more than that.

 

[Sudden Impact]

So 10 months into the new regime and they haven't received any coaching? 10 months in and the S&C hasn't yet kicked in?


Sounds like we are in for a few more years of not competing...

They have received great coaching in 10 months and continue to get coaching, but there is a lot to fix and it is not a sprint, it is a marathon.

Do not confuse "not competing" with inherited capability. Previous Coach recruited Talent at Skilled positions but left CJP with zero quality depth at the LOS. Butch failed to understand that the LOS is what wins Championships.

I am not addressing when all gets turned around because the talent and player leadership is not there. Some players maybe riding the wave to move on. We will see more attrition more than likely. What CJP has done the first 10 months has shown up week by week. Chances are in the future we will have 11 players focused on both sides of the ball and all of them doing it the right way.

It's not like flipping a light switch on and the team wins the SEC Championship.
This team had a bunch of stars that look good on the recruiting rankings chart but had little coaching to raise their level of play. Recruiting Rankings for Jones was eyewash for the fans, he did not recruit to position of need and depth. Just Stars at skilled positions.

CJP and Staff have to correct several bad habits and change the culture. It's happening and will continue to get better. Remember 0-8 in the SEC, with a 4-8 record. This was acceptable to Jones and still believes he should not have been fired. His Standards will not be acceptable to CJP and staff.

1. The Staff and CJP have higher standards than our previous coaches and they hold players accountable for their actions.
2. Off season is just as important and it's hard to make in season adjustments. Weight training.
3. Leadership and buying into the program will result in some stepping up and some departing.
4. Finding the right position temporary or permanent is key along with filling in positions for depth. (ie Banks to LB) (Trey Smith out of Position because of depth and injuries)
5. CJP is working with intangibles. It will take at least year for his program to take get the desired results. This doesn't mean it happens in a year, it is already beginning to take hold.

I am not sure you did not take my post out of context, but I don't care. It is what it is and we are going to see steady improvement and already have thus far this season.

We got 5 games with a shot at a Bowl. Many thought that feat would be unreachable at the first of the season. Some thought 8-4 or better, Understandable because Butch would have sold it but the results may have been repeated at 4-8 under Jones.

We have the best coach that was willing and available at the time of our hiring. He took the job knowing the fan base, the competition, and knowing the job required to coach at this level....Defense wins Championships.

 

[05_never_again]

I've seen several posts about how Jones was/is a good recruiter, and yet have also seen just as many posts that state he didn't recruit to his system, just went by stars attached to the player. If he only went by stars, then he couldn't be classified as a good recruiter. It takes more than that.

That's why I said even though Butch was a good recruiter, he was overrated. I've put it this way before - Butch was good at convincing players who were highly rated by the recruiting services to come to Tennessee.

With a lot of the WRs he recruited I think he pretty clearly went purely by stars attached to the player (Jauan Jennings, Josh Malone, Marquez North, Marquez Callaway). All of those guys are tall, vertical threats that lack elite speed and quickness and aren't good fits for the offense Butch ran, but they were highly rated. And they are all good receivers too, but the way Butch ran things didn't maximize their talents. Jennings and Malone were also in-state kids. He certainly recruited based off of star rating alone on Jalen Hurd, another in-state kid. Butch was really attached to highly-rated in-state recruits, probably because his predecessor was vilified for not recruiting Tennessee kids and burned relationships with high school coaches in the State of Tennessee.

However, it is undeniable that guys like Dobbs, Kamara, John Kelly, Tyler Byrd, etc. were great fits for his system. That's where his poor skills as a developer hurt him, because I don't think he got anywhere close to max potential out of any of them (perhaps Kelly, but that's it). Dobbs wasn't even all that highly recruited, but he pretty clearly fit Butch's offense well. With some guys, I think he actually did recruit well for his system, but got nowhere close to their max ability out of them.

 

[66volfan]

So 10 months into the new regime and they haven't received any coaching? 10 months in and the S&C hasn't yet kicked in?


Sounds like we are in for a few more years of not competing...

Have you not seen improvement? Is a win over an SEC West team not better than we did last year? Even if Auburn stinks, isn't the bottom of the SEC we lost to last year just as bad?

 

[greazy1722]

This lost is on Pruitt not Jones..To many excuses about the roster when coaches like Kirby Smart and Dan Mullen came in on previous coaches players and won games and changing the culture..Mark Richt another coach came to a Miami team that barely won 6 games came in the next year and won 9 off Al Golden recruits so im not really buying bs bout Pruitt dont have his own players..

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

This isn't something to laugh about. I guarantee that a Butch Jones led Alabama team would never lose to Tennessee. Nick Saban isn't an idiot. The reason he hires Tennessee castoffs is because they're talented coaches. Butch Jones couldn't turn Tennessee around, but that doesn't mean he's not a great coach. No coach, not even Saban himself, could pull UT out of the gutter at this point. The sooner we realize that, and stop firing talented coaches (like Dooley, Butch, Pruitt) the better. The constant turnover and turmoil is only making this worse and putting us even further behind Vandy and UK.

Oh brother, where to even start with this. Alabama fired an SEC championship winning coach because he wasn't good enough. Worked out pretty good for them I think. Dooley gave us back to back 1-7 conference records, not to mention our first loss to Kentucky in a quarter century. Is that your idea of a good coach? Butch went winless in conference last year. Winless! Let that sink in. You think we should've kept him?

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

This lost is on Pruitt not Jones..To many excuses about the roster when coaches like Kirby Smart and Dan Mullen came in on previous coaches players and won games and changing the culture..Mark Richt another coach came to a Miami team that barely won 6 games came in the next year and won 9 off Al Golden recruits so im not really buying bs bout Pruitt dont have his own players..

Kirby's first year at Georgia was 8-5, following a 10-3 season in Richt's final year.

 

[66volfan]

This lost is on Pruitt not Jones..To many excuses about the roster when coaches like Kirby Smart and Dan Mullen came in on previous coaches players and won games and changing the culture..Mark Richt another coach came to a Miami team that barely won 6 games came in the next year and won 9 off Al Golden recruits so im not really buying bs bout Pruitt dont have his own players..

What's lost on Pruitt? Are you really comparing UT's roster to the one Smart inherited @UGA?

 

[Orangeredblooded]

This lost is on Pruitt not Jones..To many excuses about the roster when coaches like Kirby Smart and Dan Mullen came in on previous coaches players and won games and changing the culture..Mark Richt another coach came to a Miami team that barely won 6 games came in the next year and won 9 off Al Golden recruits so im not really buying bs bout Pruitt dont have his own players..

lol, oh wait, you're being serious with this statement.

 

[BowlBrother85]

This lost is on Pruitt not Jones..To many excuses about the roster when coaches like Kirby Smart and Dan Mullen came in on previous coaches players and won games and changing the culture..Mark Richt another coach came to a Miami team that barely won 6 games came in the next year and won 9 off Al Golden recruits so im not really buying bs bout Pruitt dont have his own players..

Then the Auburn win was on Pruitt because there is no way that happens with Jones still here. He was never anything but pathetic on the road especially versus the SEC West. And the Kirby Smart analogy is just plain ignorant. Mark Richt won 10 games in his last season and recruited very well up to the very end.

 

[90 Vol]

I hope CJP is motivating the players he has. I would think after a completely demoralizing beatdown like we just had, if he throws them completely under the bus, they might just mentally quit. We have a chance to finish strong, but there comes a point when motivational speeches become belittling. Everybody has a breaking point, and if your leader (coach) beats you down as well, then many will just say **** it and go thru the motions. You think the sands were devoid of UT fans on Saturday? Wait until UK or Vandy hit us for 50. PF might be starting another search.

We already have folks that are saying **** it and going thru the motions. That was CJP's point. That has to change if we're going to have any kind of success.

 

[Behr]

Kirby's first year at Georgia was 8-5, following a 10-3 season in Richt's final year.

I think he's just a little butthurt because his nephew ain't in contention for Heisman.

Edit: I'll add that I don't really blame him if he's disappointed or even upset, but it doesn't mean its Pruitt's fault.

 

[greazy1722]

Then the Auburn win was on Pruitt because there is no way that happens with Jones still here. He was never anything but pathetic on the road especially versus the SEC West. And the Kirby Smart analogy is just plain ignorant. Mark Richt won 10 games in his last season and recruited very well up to the very end.

Mark Richt won 9 games in his 1st year with Golden recruits..3 true freshman linebackers on Defense still one 9 games..

 

[greazy1722]

lol, oh wait, you're being serious with this statement.

Lol Yeap..

 

[BowlBrother85]

Mark Richt won 9 games in his 1st year with Golden recruits..3 true freshman linebackers on Defense still one 9 games..

I'm not saying that Jeremy Pruitt has performed a miracle here yet... but he did win an SEC game. It's hard to argue that even by itself, that isn't an improvement over what we did last year. Hell, he can just beat Charlotte and Vandy and say he improved over last year.

 

[CaliVol2009]

Such a concise reply.

Also very informative in the sense that we now know the extent of your ability to detail your thoughts.

Thanks. And it would be nice if you'd limit all of your addition to the forum to that specific reply. I would suggest just copying that post and hitting paste for each of your replies going forward. Will save a lot of time for yourself and those who might otherwise reply to you.

Take care.

Tell me what you really think. Must have really struck a nerve. Carry on with the repeat threads and doomsday predictions for our team, it really will make a difference, LOL.

 

[CaliVol2009]

Have you not seen improvement? Is a win over an SEC West team not better than we did last year? Even if Auburn stinks, isn't the bottom of the SEC we lost to last year just as bad?

He’s a whinny snowflake. Nothing will make him happy. Sad really.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

He’s a whinny snowflake. Nothing will make him happy. Sad really.

Deer lowered,

can you boys not come up with a better insult than snowflake? Although to be honest a whinny from snowflake is something I'd pay to see. The only thing I've ever heard whinny was a horse.