Urban Meyer being railroaded?

What say you VN?

  • Guilty of not reporting per protocol

    Votes: 58 72.5%
  • Not guilty: He reported everything per protocol

    Votes: 2 2.5%
  • Guilty of lying, but handled per protocol

    Votes: 20 25.0%

  • Total voters
    80
#1

10acvols

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
814
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350
#1
Now that we have more information on the situation, will Meyer get a pass or is he guilty until proven innocent?

Nobody would like to see the program in turmoil more than me, but at what price? It's obvious by now that Meyer lied about knowing about the 2015 allegations. Does that mean cover-up?

To be honest, I dislike everything Ohio State, but I wouldn't want an innocent man convicted by public opinion before proven guilty. Even one that lied.

IMO he's guilty! Let him fry!!
 
#2
#2
Now that we have more information on the situation, will Meyer get a pass or is he guilty until proven innocent?

Nobody would like to see the program in turmoil more than me, but at what price? It's obvious by now that Meyer lied about knowing about the 2015 allegations. Does that mean cover-up?

To be honest, I dislike everything Ohio State, but I wouldn't want an innocent man convicted by public opinion before proven guilty. Even one that lied.

IMO he's guilty! Let him fry!!
I'll be glad to see him not coaching Ocryo State very shortly however i could easily see him coaching somewhere else like North Carolina,Colorado,Texas Tech or California in 2019. There will still be football programs who want his services because he's a proven winner who can recruit.
 
#4
#4
Does anyone believe he told the truth at Fla, health issue ? Why would anyone give him the benefit of doubt in a domestic violence case involving a close friend. It's impossible to believe he and the wife had no knowledge of this , for years.
 
#5
#5
How can anyone on this message board make an informed vote about whether he followed protocol? Meyer issued an unsworn statement saying he did, after saying he knew nothing about it a week earlier. If he followed protocol there should be emails, texts, memos, or some other documentation that he reported the allegations to his superiors. We haven’t seen any of those. I’m not saying they don’t exist, but you can’t determine whether he followed protocol or not without knowing whether they do exist. Personally, I would think if he made a public statement like this saying he reported it, he’d be a fool not to have a paper trail backing it up.

Entirely separate is the question of even if he followed protocol (in compliance with the requirements of Title IX and his contract), is it acceptable for the head football coach to keep an assistant coach on his staff who he knew to be a serial wife abuser? Because those are facts we do know at this point.
 
#7
#7
Here is my question, was zack smith ever charged or found guilty in a court of law of domestic violence?

If not then is it fair to blame urban liar for not firing smith? If he would have fired him then smith would have sued the school.

I would love to see O No state be in turmoil but firing people for allegations is a little reckless. For god's sake lets not expect liar to be judge and jury.
 
#8
#8
Here is my question, was zack smith ever charged or found guilty in a court of law of domestic violence?

If not then is it fair to blame urban liar for not firing smith? If he would have fired him then smith would have sued the school.

I would love to see O No state be in turmoil but firing people for allegations is a little reckless. For god's sake lets not expect liar to be judge and jury.

This has been my position. I would love nothing more than to see OSU burn for this and Meyer get kicked to the street.

Do I think he knew more than he is letting on? Sure. Do I think there is probably a coverup? Sure. Does lying at media days look bad? Absolutely.

But let’s look at the facts today. Zach Smith wasn’t charged with anything in 2009 and 2015. When charges were brought against him this summer he was fired. I think Meyer is a snake and this whole thing stinks, but it’s a slippery slope when we start firing people for accusations. If the police didn’t bring charges, Meyer wasn’t obligated to do anything.
 
#9
#9
This has been my position. I would love nothing more than to see OSU burn for this and Meyer get kicked to the street.

Do I think he knew more than he is letting on? Sure. Do I think there is probably a coverup? Sure. Does lying at media days look bad? Absolutely.

But let’s look at the facts today. Zach Smith wasn’t charged with anything in 2009 and 2015. When charges were brought against him this summer he was fired. I think Meyer is a snake and this whole thing stinks, but it’s a slippery slope when we start firing people for accusations. If the police didn’t bring charges, Meyer wasn’t obligated to do anything.

Yep, and it hard not to sound like the bad guy when brining this up. Everyone wants to railroad you into the wife beater sympathizer and head coach worshiper.

Other important questions, why was Smith not charged?

Is it possible "favors" existed between osu coaches and local police? I find it unlikely and difficult to prove if true.

From my understanding, cdv charges are easily apploed by cops but hard to prosecute. Maybe someone on here has more experience or knowledge and can speak to this?

Did the wife decide not to follow through with prosecuting for whatever reason?
 
#11
#11
Wouldn't the morals clause in his contract makes that irrelevant?
Morals clause for what? A marital dispute?

This decision was likely made and investigated by Ohio St in 2015. Certainly Meyer could have fired him for whatever reason he wanted, but I'd bet the decision to keep him on staff in 2015 came with Ohio St's recommendation or approval.
 
#12
#12
Wouldn't the morals clause in his contract makes that irrelevant?

I don’t know. He reported it up the chain, based on what he claims. Without formal charges, what else was he supposed to do? He isn’t an investigator or a marriage counselor, he is a coach.

I’m not defending UM or ZS. I think there is enough heresay all over the place that they are probably both guilty of something. UM is a known sleezball and I would bet he knew a lot more and could have done more. But by contract and what was charged I don’t know if he was obligated to do anything more on paper.

The entire system didn’t do enough to protect ZS wife and that is the saddest part.
 
#13
#13
I don’t know. He reported it up the chain, based on what he claims. Without formal charges, what else was he supposed to do? He isn’t an investigator or a marriage counselor, he is a coach.

I’m not defending UM or ZS. I think there is enough heresay all over the place that they are probably both guilty of something. UM is a known sleezball and I would bet he knew a lot more and could have done more. But by contract and what was charged I don’t know if he was obligated to do anything more on paper.

The entire system didn’t do enough to protect ZS wife and that is the saddest part.
From a technically standpoint that's true. And that's why he will probably be retained while the AD is sacraficed.

The "chain of command" in this particular situation is a farce similar to other name brand schools with name brand coaches. Meyer would not be taking and answering questions on this at media days otherwise. It would be "no comment, and no more questions on that".

Meyer stopped well short knowing this wasn't this guys first time of what he should have done. He didn't need a chain of command for that.

Your last statement is spot on. And that appears to reach even outside the school to her family.
 
#14
#14
How can anyone on this message board make an informed vote about whether he followed protocol? Meyer issued an unsworn statement saying he did, after saying he knew nothing about it a week earlier. If he followed protocol there should be emails, texts, memos, or some other documentation that he reported the allegations to his superiors. We haven’t seen any of those. I’m not saying they don’t exist, but you can’t determine whether he followed protocol or not without knowing whether they do exist. Personally, I would think if he made a public statement like this saying he reported it, he’d be a fool not to have a paper trail backing it up.

Entirely separate is the question of even if he followed protocol (in compliance with the requirements of Title IX and his contract), is it acceptable for the head football coach to keep an assistant coach on his staff who he knew to be a serial wife abuser? Because those are facts we do know at this point.
In the current climate absolutely not.
 
#15
#15
Here is my question, was zack smith ever charged or found guilty in a court of law of domestic violence?

If not then is it fair to blame urban liar for not firing smith? If he would have fired him then smith would have sued the school.

I would love to see O No state be in turmoil but firing people for allegations is a little reckless. For god's sake lets not expect liar to be judge and jury.
Looks like keeping him on staff is going to be more costly in the long run than a lawsuit would've been.
 
#16
#16
Morals clause for what? A marital dispute?

This decision was likely made and investigated by Ohio St in 2015. Certainly Meyer could have fired him for whatever reason he wanted, but I'd bet the decision to keep him on staff in 2015 came with Ohio St's recommendation or approval.
The investigation in said case (assuming that may have happened) would have started and stopped with Meyer and what he wanted to do.

"Internal Investigations" are one of the more comical things that come out in these situations.
 
#17
#17
Here is my question, was zack smith ever charged or found guilty in a court of law of domestic violence?

If not then is it fair to blame urban liar for not firing smith? If he would have fired him then smith would have sued the school.

I would love to see O No state be in turmoil but firing people for allegations is a little reckless. For god's sake lets not expect liar to be judge and jury.
Are you saying that HC’s can’t fire their assistants? When are we seeing the Jancek lawsuit?
 
#18
#18
I don’t know. He reported it up the chain, based on what he claims. Without formal charges, what else was he supposed to do? He isn’t an investigator or a marriage counselor, he is a coach.

I’m not defending UM or ZS. I think there is enough heresay all over the place that they are probably both guilty of something. UM is a known sleezball and I would bet he knew a lot more and could have done more. But by contract and what was charged I don’t know if he was obligated to do anything more on paper.

The entire system didn’t do enough to protect ZS wife and that is the saddest part.
This is beyond what’s on paper. Joe Paterno was never charged with a crime, but they had wins stripped and sanctions based on what a former coach did on campus. This isn’t at that level, but you have legitimate questions of a top 2 coach KNOWING that his assistant coach was abusing his wife and he promoted him to recruiting coordinator.
 
#19
#19
We don’t have to speculate about what would have happened if they fired Zach Smith over “unsubstantiated” allegations. Smith was fired right before Big 10 media days. Was that solely based on him dropping the kids off at the wrong place? Seems more likely it was based on the history he had that was now reaching the public.

As for tOSU doing everything by the book if Meyer reported it in 2015, Courtney Smith said in her interview that no one from the university had come to her inquiring about the things she told Shelley Meyer or any of the police complaints. How legitimate of an investigation can it have been if they never spoke to the person making the allegations?
 
#20
#20
The investigation in said case (assuming that may have happened) would have started and stopped with Meyer and what he wanted to do.

"Internal Investigations" are one of the more comical things that come out in these situations.

Zach Smith said the Powell police reported the abuse allegations to Ohio St. It's likely Gene Smith knew before Meyer. The investigation in 2015 was probably wait and see what the police investigation concluded. Probably what happened was when there were no charges filed the agreement was made to keep Smith. A consensus between Meyer and the AD. If Ohio St wanted him gone he would have been gone.

The current investigation going on now is probably just them buying time to get their story straight and plan how they want to release information saying they acted appropriately given the information at the time.

"Plenty of people knew about the allegation," Zach Smith.

Zach Smith said he was recruiting away from Columbus during Ohio State's bye week in the last week of October in 2015, when Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith called him and told him to come back to Columbus because of the domestic abuse allegation.

"I think they handled it exactly how they should have handled it," Zach Smith said of Ohio State.

The Powell police alerted Ohio State about the abuse allegations, according to Zach Smith. He said the police investigated, and after there were no charges, "the case went away."

Zach Smith, fired Ohio State assistant, says Ohio State AD Gene Smith knew of abuse allegations
 
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#21
#21
Yep, and it hard not to sound like the bad guy when brining this up. Everyone wants to railroad you into the wife beater sympathizer and head coach worshiper.

Other important questions, why was Smith not charged?

Is it possible "favors" existed between osu coaches and local police? I find it unlikely and difficult to prove if true.

From my understanding, cdv charges are easily apploed by cops but hard to prosecute. Maybe someone on here has more experience or knowledge and can speak to this?

Did the wife decide not to follow through with prosecuting for whatever reason?

From what I understand the allegations are not that Meyer and OSU pressured the police to drop the charges. Rather they pressured Zach Smith’s wife to do it.

And actually, while it’s difficult to prove collusion with the cops, it’s very possible. Look at the Penn State debacle. School officials refused to report the accusations of a student to the cops even when said student was being taken out of class multiple times by Sandusky without notifying his mother. In addition when the kid admitted Sandusky was assaulting him, the school told him and his mother not to go to the police, pressuring both of them repeatedly. The mother had to go to the authorities herself and even then the cops dragged their feet for years, much of that because the District Attorney was a PSU grad and had many major donors onto his political campaign.

It took years after the student admitted what happened to arrest Sandusky and the majority of that time it had nothing to do with interviewing witnesses and gathering evidence but rather officials from the top deliberately stalling.

Cops in a university town have very close relations to the university and many times, they will put the interests of the university first. Because like everything, politics is key and all these state officials know the movers and shakers in the university.
 
#22
#22
Zach Smith said the Powell police reported the abuse allegations to Ohio St. It's likely Gene Smith knew before Meyer. The investigation in 2015 was probably wait and see what the police investigation concluded. Probably what happened was when there were no charges filed the agreement was made to keep Smith. A consensus between Meyer and the AD. If Ohio St wanted him gone he would have been gone.

The current investigation going on now is probably just them buying time to get their story straight and plan how they want to release information saying they acted appropriately given the information at the time.



Zach Smith, fired Ohio State assistant, says Ohio State AD Gene Smith knew of abuse allegations
Your first sentence is a huge stretch given Meyer ( and his wife's) history with this coach and his wife.

You re giving OSU (outside Meyer) more credit than I'm willing to.
 
#23
#23
Apparently his 2018 contract extension with Title IX provisions has just started. 'The university announced its approval April 5 and distributed copies; however, the contract had not been signed at that point by the university's chief financial officer, making it not fully executed. The contract is set to run through the 2022 season.'
 
#24
#24
From what I understand the allegations are not that Meyer and OSU pressured the police to drop the charges. Rather they pressured Zach Smith’s wife to do it.

And actually, while it’s difficult to prove collusion with the cops, it’s very possible. Look at the Penn State debacle. School officials refused to report the accusations of a student to the cops even when said student was being taken out of class multiple times by Sandusky without notifying his mother. In addition when the kid admitted Sandusky was assaulting him, the school told him and his mother not to go to the police, pressuring both of them repeatedly. The mother had to go to the authorities herself and even then the cops dragged their feet for years, much of that because the District Attorney was a PSU grad and had many major donors onto his political campaign.

It took years after the student admitted what happened to arrest Sandusky and the majority of that time it had nothing to do with interviewing witnesses and gathering evidence but rather officials from the top deliberately stalling.

Cops in a university town have very close relations to the university and many times, they will put the interests of the university first. Because like everything, politics is key and all these state officials know the movers and shakers in the university.
Wow, that would be awful if osu pressured her to drop charges...none of their damn business.
 
#25
#25
Are you saying that HC’s can’t fire their assistants? When are we seeing the Jancek lawsuit?

Nope obviously they can fire their assistants but to fire for allegations of abuse could be reckless.

Can't belive charges never filed and prosecuted the the first instance.
 

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