Shoop's D: Article explaining why it works at MSU, failed at Tennessee

#26
#26
AshG said:
This has several shades of Dave Clawson and Phil Fulmer. Fulmer brought Clawson in as an offensive genius, then bridled him with running a different system and not allowing him to bring in the staff to implement the Clawfense.

It's like a restaurant. If you hire a French chef for an avant garde restaurant and don't let him cook French cuisine or bring in the sous chef he's used to working with, the kitchen will fall apart very quickly. That's what I believe happened with Clawson and Shoop, and this article points squarely in that direction.
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Like hiring Jacques Pepin at Waffle House
 
#27
#27
AshG said:
“And I think one of the things, looking back, that I really tried to do at Tennessee, whether it was to my detriment or whatever, was to try to fit into that culture – and really, in some ways, never got a chance to be myself or who I was.”

With Moorhead’s blessing, Shoop is operating MSU’s defense just the way he wants.
The results are striking

How Bob Shoop found success at Mississippi State and where it went wrong with UT Vols.
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It went wrong at UT under that anal--ist Butch Jones...
 
#28
#28
Looking at Shoop prior to UT and now after UT its not a a shock that he was hampered by Butch. I am really curious though everyone always uses the phrase "culture change". What exactly was the culture at UT with Butch? Was it just a lazy care free culture? Because we sure played soft last year. The defense played on its heels the entire year. Offense looked on its heels as well. Well maybe butts instead of heels but still.
 
#29
#29
A link to a pay article? No thanks.

Anyway, why hire a guy to run a defense and then not let him do his job? Makes no sense.
 
#32
#32
05_never_again said:
You're right, he was a 4-2-5 guy, but he dealt with so many injuries. There was also talk Butch didn't let him bring any of his own assistants in. If that is truly the case, it is kind of surprising he was able to woo Shoop in the first place.
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Shoop wanted out at PSU. He didn't get on with James Franklin too well.
 
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#33
#33
TennesseeTarheel said:
A link to a pay article? No thanks.

Anyway, why hire a guy to run a defense and then not let him do his job? Makes no sense.
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Incognito or Private Mode defeats paywalls quite nicely. At least I copied the most important part of the article; the rest was filler.
 
#35
#35
The only one that doesn't moan when Butch Jones walks through the door is the fancy watch dealerships.
 
#40
#40
When I first heard his intro presser at Tennessee, I believed that Shoop's hands had been tied by Butch. I couldn't believe some of the things he was saying or the fact that he couldn't hire any of his own people.
 
#41
#41
AshG said:
This has several shades of Dave Clawson and Phil Fulmer. Fulmer brought Clawson in as an offensive genius, then bridled him with running a different system and not allowing him to bring in the staff to implement the Clawfense.

It's like a restaurant. If you hire a French chef for an avant garde restaurant and don't let him cook French cuisine or bring in the sous chef he's used to working with, the kitchen will fall apart very quickly. That's what I believe happened with Clawson and Shoop, and this article points squarely in that direction.
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Interesting, that's not how I remember it at all. I remember it as Clawson was allowed to install his offense, and it was not able to be run by a confused Crompton et al. As the losses piled up, articles starting appearing about how it would take two years to implement. Problem was, Fulmer didn't have two years to let Clausen make it work. So at that point--too late--he intervened and simplified the offense to something Crompton could run. Anyway, that's how I remember it.
 
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#43
#43
The other thing people overlook about Shoop's time at Tennessee (on top of the injuries and culture) is how much Butch's offense was screwing him over.

Shoop's stats were much better in the 1st Quarter than they were in the 4th Quarter. Even the 2016 offense, which people (wrongly IMO) viewed as 'great', was harming the defense immensely with a huge number of turnovers, constant series of quick 3-and-outs, and when they did score, they scored very quickly so the D never got much rest.

That Vandy game in 2016 is a great example. People look at our yardage stats and think the offense was fine, but most of those yards came in the 1st half and the 2nd half was filled with offensive ineptitude. This is part of the reason I've said Butch simply doesn't understand game strategy. He doesn't consider that the other team driving the ball for 5 minutes on the defense, followed by a 3 and out series that only last 40 seconds, doesn't give our D time to rest. He just mindlessly tried to run a quick-paced offense regardless of circumstance.
 
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#44
#44
I doubt Butch interfered with defensive play calling. Hell, I doubt Butch can spell defense. I think where Butch interfered was personnel. Certain players ran to him for preferential treatment.
 
#45
#45
Any coach who focuses on what kind of car he shows up in to recruit a guy is getting it wrong.

Jones got a lot of things wrong at UT.

Especially hiring Shoop then handcuffing him with a lack of that complimentary football he rambled on about. Offense hung his defense out to dry a lot and they never looked as aggressive on defense as Shoops defenses looked under Franklin.
 
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#47
#47
Roustabout said:
Clawson hasn't exacrly lit it up anywhere else. His first year, UT was still a power football team and Clawson was too stupid to run the damn ball. He also shifted olinemen from side to side, which is also stupid. He did nothing to develop Crompton.

Fulmer could have hired Debord, which would have been 10x better. Clawson was a bad hire when Fulmer had expended his equity.
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Fulmer was handcuffed by the admin. He wanted to hire Debord and they wouldn't give him any cash the season after he went to an SEC title game and won 10 games.

Agree on the rest
 
#48
#48
Honestly, it’s easy to say that now that he’s gone. Probably a mixture of scheme and not having as talented of players.
 
#49
#49
roosterjbh said:
Wow, I didn’t realize the numbers MSU was putting up on defense. Best in the nation in scoring defense, only one opponent with more than 13 points. That’s...really impressive. Makes you wonder what all happened
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There is a very simple explanation as to what went wrong. Its called Botch Jones.
 
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