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SSVol

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Cast off 2016 all you want.

I, for one, will carry the sweet aroma of those Florida and UGA victories for many years.

Without a doubt, the sweetest Vol moments in over a decade and everyone wants to seemingly toss them out for Butch hatred.
It's pervasive throughout our culture. Thomas Jefferson owned a slave, so everything he ever did right is invalid or tainted. I prefer to start from the position that we all suck to a great extent and whenever we do manage to get something right, that's awesome, but it's simply a testament to the grace we've received.
 

BruinVol

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I don’t consider auburn or LSU a playoff contender and their talent is unquestionably better than ours.

Off the top of my head:

Bama, Ohio state, Clemson, ND, WVU, penn state, Michigan, miami, Georgia, LSU, Auburn,Stanford, texas, Oklahoma, Florida, Washington, Wisconsin, Oregon, texas AM, Miss state,

That’s 20 right there that are universally accepted to have better players than us.

Then you can get into teams like South Carolina, Kentucky, Colorado, NC state, TCU etc that a very good case can be made for.

When i say i don’t think we are a top 20 roster i base it on i think they are 20+ teams i can say for sure have better players than us. I know we’re top 50 for sure. We’re probably somewhere between 30-45 depending on who is judging.

I would argue LSU and Auburn are/were playoff contenders especially considering both have been ranked in the top 5 this season iirc.

Of those other 20 teams you listed I would say our roster is every bid as good as Forida and Miss State. I am not familiar with Oregon and Wisconsin but id say we are close. Point is I think that 15-40 group you are talking about are all very close in talent and the mentality/confidence and coaching schemes are what decide the winners and losers in that group imo.

So yea our results certainly match the lower side of that 15-40 but again our schedule doesn't allow us to catch our stride in any shape form or fashion
 

BruinVol

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I think michigan is a perfect example of a program with similar talent as us with very diffent circumstances with their schedule.

While I think their rooster is slightly better than ours they are able to stay in the relevant category because they play so many games vs really bad teams. They never win big games but stay in that ranked category because of beating up on the teams that allow them to keep their confidence and Mentality of winning.
 

LA Vol

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We have talent. Our talent just doesn't seem to develop as quickly as other teams' players and doesn't seem as motivated. One thing Pruitt keeps reiterating is that we have players who don't give full effort all the time. Every week, he talks about players being inconsistent, not working hard enough, taking plays off and giving up on plays. Some players who should be contributing stand on the sidelines because they're "inconsistent" in practice-- and if they don't bring it in practice, they don't play in games. Get the mental part right and the "talent" part will look better.
 

BruinVol

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We have talent. Our talent just doesn't seem to develop as quickly as other teams' players and doesn't seem as
motivated.

I know I am on a sports physiology kick here but imo that motivation is stunted because of the negative feel around this program. For instance the pep in a players step going to practice isn't going to as high when we are getting ready to play georgia/Bama. We simply haven't won enough games to make any players reasonably feel that their hard work or preparation is going to pay off with a win in such games. I know it's a excuse but it really makes sense to me in responding to your post
 

jakez4ut

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We have talent. Our talent just doesn't seem to develop as quickly as other teams' players and doesn't seem as motivated. One thing Pruitt keeps reiterating is that we have players who don't give full effort all the time. Every week, he talks about players being inconsistent, not working hard enough, taking plays off and giving up on plays. Some players who should be contributing stand on the sidelines because they're "inconsistent" in practice-- and if they don't bring it in practice, they don't play in games. Get the mental part right and the "talent" part will look better.
and that's fine. but again, to me that goes to to the development aspect........

i just get tired of seeing "we have top 20 talent, what gives?".

this roster, right now, isn't that great. can it get better? sure it can. for many of the reasons you stated. and a good bit of that, if not all of it, has been discussed by CJP publically many times. a whole lot of 'we're no where where we need to be'.

it just hasn't happened yet.
 

Aesius

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The biggest question to me is whether Pruitt can “fix” the mindsets of the older players before next season (I think this season is a 3-9/4-8 wash) or if he’s just gonna have to rely on his freshmen and sophomores and take another beating in conference play.
 

jakez4ut

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The biggest question to me is whether Pruitt can “fix” the mindsets of the older players before next season (I think this season is a 3-9/4-8 wash) or if he’s just gonna have to rely on his freshmen and sophomores and take another beating in conference play.
that gets harder to do if they continue to lose. but in general, i do think there'll be some addition by subtraction next off season just organically with Srs. departing etc...anyone having the option to return and play....by then they'll know what's expected, and how to do it. you'd think that should translate in to positives on the field next season.
 

BruinVol

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and that's fine. but again, to me that goes to to the development aspect........

i just get tired of seeing "we have top 20 talent, what gives?".

this roster, right now, isn't that great. can it get better? sure it can. for many of the reasons you stated. and a good bit of that, if not all of it, has been discussed by CJP publically many times. a whole lot of 'we're no where where we need to be'.

it just hasn't happened yet.
It seems to me we are talking about two diffent things when discussing the roster. For me when I talk about talent I am talking about the ceiling a player has when they are performing at Their best. With that said I believe our roster is plenty comparable to other ranked teams we just arent performing to that level.

It seems to me that many here are just talking about the production that roster has now. That's a very different thing imo.
 

jakez4ut

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It seems to me we are talking about two diffent things when discussing the roster. For me when I talk about talent I am talking about the ceiling a player has when they are performing at Their best. With that said I believe our roster is plenty comparable to other ranked teams we just arent performing to that level.

It seems to me that many here are just talking about the production that roster has now. That's a very different thing imo.
i'll buy that. i'm definitely talking about current peformance, and what could be/should be expected from this roster...today, and this season.

i don't have any issue saying there's potential. but there's some things that need to be addressed/fixed before they really give themselves a chance of realizing it.

and to date, that ain't happening. least of which is the mental aspect of learning how to win, when your're right now one of the worst teams in TN history on a historic conf losing streak. combine that with the complete and utter lack of development up to this new regime taking over, and it's just not a recipe for success.

can it get better? yeah. will it? i do think so, yes. but i'm not convinced if we had to line up and play any (yes, i did say "any" this time :) ) nationally ranked team tomorrow that we could just go line up and beat them because our "talent ranking" says we should or could. there's just more to it than that.
 

HankHill

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We have talent. Our talent just doesn't seem to develop as quickly as other teams' players and doesn't seem as motivated. One thing Pruitt keeps reiterating is that we have players who don't give full effort all the time. Every week, he talks about players being inconsistent, not working hard enough, taking plays off and giving up on plays. Some players who should be contributing stand on the sidelines because they're "inconsistent" in practice-- and if they don't bring it in practice, they don't play in games. Get the mental part right and the "talent" part will look better.
Honestly playing and practicing hard, some of staying healthy and taking care of your body, being consistent is part of talent.
 

BruinVol

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i'll buy that. i'm definitely talking about current peformance, and what could be/should be expected from this roster...today, and this season.

i don't have any issue saying there's potential. but there's some things that need to be addressed/fixed before they really give themselves a chance of realizing it.

and to date, that ain't happening. least of which is the mental aspect of learning how to win, when your're right now one of the worst teams in TN history on a historic conf losing streak. combine that with the complete and utter lack of development up to this new regime taking over, and it's just not a recipe for success.

can it get better? yeah. will it? i do think so, yes. but i'm not convinced if we had to line up and play any (yes, i did say "any" this time :) ) nationally ranked team tomorrow that we could just go line up and beat them because our "talent ranking" says we should or could. there's just more to it than that.
I respect this for sure and I know I keep going
Back to the schedule but we may very well not see it change this season. Just too many losses to get past and keep the mentality needed to win those winnable games at the end of the season


I posted about michigan earlier but where would be right now if our schedule was ??

ND
W Mich
Smu
Nebraska
Northwestern
Maryland


Those underachieving rascals are knocking on the door of the top 10. Heck I'd bet we would be 5-1 as well and many would be praising our roster if so
 

jakez4ut

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I respect this for sure and I know I keep going
Back to the schedule but we may very well not see it change this season. Just too many losses to get past and keep the mentality needed to win those winnable games at the end of the season


I posted about michigan earlier but where would be right now if our schedule was ??

ND
W Mich
Smu
Nebraska
Northwestern
Maryland


Those underachieving rascals are knocking on the door of the top 10. Heck I'd bet we would be 5-1 as well and many would be praising our roster if so
the schedule is the schedule. we've pined over it since it came out last year and most everyone saw this 5 game stretch and said 1-4 would be about the best we could hope for, and that 0-5 is likely.

and that that would be hard to overcome and see what, if any, real improvement was being made.

nothing in that regard has changed, except now that we're half way thru it, we've seen it, and the O line gets man handled, the Wr's still struggle to get seperation and make plays, the TE's have struggled, the secondary is young and has given up plays. and we've lost 3 games each by more than 3 TD's.

i think the front 7 has been serviceable.

the schedule being what it is, i think the disappointing thing about the L's is not the L's themselves, but just how non competitive we've shown to be for large portions of each game.

so, just saying "top 20 roster" just doesn't tell the whole story to me. top 20 roster should have been way more competitive with FL at the very least. there's just more to "talent" to me than the # someone puts next your name because your composite star rating average says it is. especially when you've been on the roster for multiple years.
 

BruinVol

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the schedule is the schedule. we've pined over it since it came out last year and most everyone saw this 5 game stretch and said 1-4 would be about the best we could hope for, and that 0-5 is likely.

and that that would be hard to overcome and see what, if any, real improvement was being made.

nothing in that regard has changed, except now that we're half way thru it, we've seen it, and the O line gets man handled, the Wr's still struggle to get seperation and make plays, the TE's have struggled, the secondary is young and has given up plays. and we've lost 3 games each by more than 3 TD's.

i think the front 7 has been serviceable.

the schedule being what it is, i think the disappointing thing about the L's is not the L's themselves, but just how non competitive we've shown to be for large portions of each game.

so, just saying "top 20 roster" just doesn't tell the whole story to me. top 20 roster should have been way more competitive with FL at the very least. there's just more to "talent" to me than the # someone puts next your name because your composite star rating average says it is. especially when you've been on the roster for multiple years.

Heck all those TOs against florida is much more the story about that game than the talent/roster. Just look at how even the game was when it comes to yards and such to see that.
 

jakez4ut

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Heck all those TOs against florida is much more the story about that game than the talent/roster. Just look at how even the game was when it comes to yards and such to see that.
their front 7 dominated our offense. and they've shown to have more speed offensively than we currently have. i don't think we lose that game by the margin we did w/out the turnovers, granted.

but i didn't see anything physically that said we would have definitely won had we not. i'd love to find out. maybe we will tomorrow. i think Auburn presents a very similar match up defensively. and their offense isn't lighting it up, much like FL's wasn't coming in to the TN game. i'm very interested to see if we can play a relatievely mistake free game and see how it goes.

i know it sounds like i'm really down on this team in these posts, i'm really not. i've seen some improvement. and i think they'll continue to get better. im very hopeful that as we get closer to November, we'll start to see some of the work they've put in start to pay off.

i just don't have any more misconceptions about where this roster stands right now against most of the rest of the conference . that much i feel confident in saying based on what i've seen so far from us, and the compeition.
 

BruinVol

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their front 7 dominated our offense. and they've shown to have more speed offensively than we currently have. i don't think we lose that game by the margin we did w/out the turnovers, granted.

but i didn't see anything physically that said we would have definitely won had we not. i'd love to find out. maybe we will tomorrow. i think Auburn presents a very similar match up defensively. and their offense isn't lighting it up, much like FL's wasn't coming in to the TN game. i'm very interested to see if we can play a relatievely mistake free game and see how it goes.

i know it sounds like i'm really down on this team in these posts, i'm really not. i've seen some improvement. and i think they'll continue to get better. im very hopeful that as we get closer to November, we'll start to see some of the work they've put in start to pay off.

i just don't have any more misconceptions about where this roster stands right now against most of the rest of the conference . that much i feel confident in saying based on what i've seen so far from us, and the compeition.

Oh I think we lose that game without the TOs because our OC was down right pitiful that day. Their front 7 knew exactly what was coming so yea they looked great. Our front 7 looked plenty solid that day was well To though
 

VolGee4

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I always agreed with D4H’s take that we should have always had 2 RB sets with them. Those two and Dobbs in the same backfield and JJ and Malone on the outside? We shouldn’t have lost more than a game or 2 in 2016.

That’s what makes butch a worse coach than Dooley. At least Dooley knew how to get his playmakers the ball.
That wasn’t the problem against Vandy in 2016. We couldn’t stop them; same problem as Dooley. Butch goes to the Sugar Bowl if they beat Vandy.

Also, against USCe, Kamara was out and Hurd quit. Jennings and Malone had nearly 100 of the 161 passing yards. You make it sound so easy.
 

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