POTUS Ignoring His Advisers & Former Presidents, Makes Peace With Russia

#1
Rasputin_Vol

Rasputin_Vol

"Slava Ukraina"
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#1
Dick & Ronnie & God & Gorby

Reagan and Gorbachev sat down in Iceland on October 11 and 12, 1986, for what turned out to be one of the most tumultuous summits of the entire Cold War. Reagan flew into the meeting against a backdrop of the usual admonitions in the United States that Gorbachev represented nothing new for Soviet foreign policy. “He was a protégé of Yuri Andropov, then head of the KGB, and Mikhail Suslov, then chief party ideologue,” wrote Henry Kissinger. “Neither of these men was likely to have been a closet dove.” In Reykjavik, however, Gorbachev departed from the Soviet past by offering a startling package of proposals on arms control; these represented a series of concessions toward the American positions. Gorbachev suggested that the United States and the Soviet Union cut by half their strategic weapons, including heavy intercontinental ballistic missiles. He also proposed that the two countries eliminate all their intermediate-range missiles in Europe.
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By the time of Nixon’s clandestine visit to the White House, Reagan and his top aides, including Shultz and the chief of staff, Howard Baker, were incensed—not at the Soviets, but at high-level criticism on the home front. Nixon and Kissinger, the architects of détente with the Soviet Union, were now giving credibility, in widely discussed articles, to the argument that Reagan was being seduced by Gorbachev. Frank Carlucci, the national-security adviser, recommended that the president meet, separately, with Nixon and Kissinger. Reagan quickly rejected Kissinger, his principal political target and adversary of the mid-1970s. Nixon, however, was different; Reagan would not say no to a former president.

Once settled into a soft chair alongside Reagan in the White House residence, with Baker and Carlucci looking on, Nixon seized the initiative. He said he realized the administration was unhappy with the public criticism, but he and Kissinger were sincere. The thrust of Nixon’s message was that Reagan should be more hawkish in dealing with Gorbachev. At one point, according to Nixon’s private notes from the session, Nixon told Reagan that a deal with the Soviets would not really help Reagan’s standing with the American public. Polls showed that military action helps a president far more than diplomacy does, Nixon said. “I pointed out that many people felt my popularity had gone up because of my trip to China. In fact, it had improved only slightly. What really sent it up was the bombing and mining of Haiphong.”

Nixon’s broader complaint was that any agreement to remove missiles from Europe would leave the Soviet Union with a large advantage in conventional military forces. Reagan pointed out that in his face-to-face conversations with Gorbachev, the Soviet leader had seemed sincere in his desire to reduce Soviet military power, including conventional forces. Gorbachev had said he didn’t want to continue the unending arms race between the two superpowers. Nixon thought Reagan was naïve to believe Gorbachev. He wrote in his subsequent memo that this part of his conversation with Reagan was “somewhat disturbing.”
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#2
#2
Continued...

Reagan asked Nixon for his opinion of Gorbachev. Nixon responded with skepticism. He “could not have gotten his present position or have retained it unless he wanted to be in a position to neutralize Europe or dominate it by either conventional or nuclear blackmail,” Nixon said.
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Gorby just couldn't be trusted. All of these Russians are the same. They are all hellbent on controlling Europe. They had to be stopped.
 
#3
#3
Of course, we haven't heard this before...

Nixon came out of the meeting believing that Reagan looked “far older, more tired, and less vigorous in person than in public.” Moreover, Nixon thought, “Reagan, candidly, did not seem to be on top of the issues—certainly in no way as knowledgeable as Gorbachev, for example, which of course would not be surprising.”

Nixon’s conclusion about the president was damning: “There is no way he can ever be allowed to participate in a private meeting with Gorbachev.”
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#4
#4
Interesting find, but significantly different circumstances than what we are encountering today. Gorbachev was working to westernize the USSR, while Putin represents a return to the authoritarian state.

Gorbachev worked to provide freedom of speech, Putin suppresses freedom of speech, violently. Putin is a former KGB agent and a known thug.

"Gorbachev attempted to democratize the Soviet Union and ended the Cold War, then presided — unintentionally — over his country’s demise. Putin has rebuilt the Russian state, in part by resurrecting authoritarianism and fomenting a new cold war.

In fact, rejecting Gorbachev’s legacy has provided Putin with the main planks of his political platform. While Gorbachev has gotten immense credit internationally for ending the Cold War, he is still blamed in Russia for the collapse of the Soviet Union and the economic crash that accompanied it."

"The Gorbachev era seems distant indeed from Russia today. Gorbachev’s principal domestic achievements were to bring freedom of speech, assembly and conscience to people who had hardly ever known them, and to lay the groundwork for democracy by introducing free elections and parliamentary institutions. He also tried to transform the super-centralized Soviet state into a genuine federation.

Gorbachev’s style of leadership broke with the Russian/Soviet tradition of a “strong hand” at the top. Unlike their past leaders, Gorbachev hoped to persuade Soviet citizens rather than command them. When both Communist hard-liners and radical democrats opposed his reforms, for different reasons, he tried to reconcile them. When clashing deputies created near-chaos in the new parliament, Gorbachev tried to steer the raucous debates rather than close them down."
 
#5
#5
Please, please never compare Trump to Reagan. It's just wrong on so many levels.
 
#8
#8
General Jack said:
Interesting find, but significantly different circumstances than what we are encountering today. Gorbachev was working to westernize the USSR, while Putin represents a return to the authoritarian state.

Gorbachev worked to provide freedom of speech, Putin suppresses freedom of speech, violently. Putin is a former KGB agent and a known thug.
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“He was a protégé of Yuri Andropov, then head of the KGB, and Mikhail Suslov, then chief party ideologue,” wrote Henry Kissinger.
 
#12
#12
Vol_Doc said:
Trump may have ripped off Reagan's campaign slogan, but he's no Reagan. Not even close.
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If folks would get off his back and work with him, he could go down as being one of the best Presidents we have ever had. He is trying to fix what is wrong in this country, whether you agree with the way he is going about it or not. We are on track with a great, improving economy with new trade agreements, a better tax structure, and are in direct conversation with long time enemies. The prospects for a more conservative judiciary is looking up also. I can't wait . It's a shame that we can't have a lifetime President like FDR again. Unfortunately, Trump isn't that young though, so it's a moot point.
 
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#13
#13
1972 Grad said:
If folks would get off his back and work with him, he could go down as being one of the best Presidents we have ever had. He is trying to fix what is wrong in this country, whether you agree with the way he is going about it or not. We are on track with a great, improving economy with new trade agreements, a better tax structure, and are in direct conversation with long time enemies. The prospects for a more conservative judiciary is looking up also. I can't wait . It's a shame that we can't have a lifetime President like FDR again. Unfortunately, Trump isn't that young though, so it's a moot point.
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It took someone like Trump to expose the DC corruption and finally we can see how transparent the Dims are by their actions.
 
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#14
#14
1972 Grad said:
If folks would get off his back and work with him, he could go down as being one of the best Presidents we have ever had. He is trying to fix what is wrong in this country, whether you agree with the way he is going about it or not. We are on track with a great, improving economy with new trade agreements, a better tax structure, and are in direct conversation with long time enemies. The prospects for a more conservative judiciary is looking up also. I can't wait . It's a shame that we can't have a lifetime President like FDR again. Unfortunately, Trump isn't that young though, so it's a moot point.
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I agree with some of what he's done so far, and there's potential for more. I've gotten over the gag reflex of him actually being the president. Still, to even consider him as a candidate for one of the greatest US presidents at this point is ludicrous to me.
 
#15
#15
1972 Grad said:
If folks would get off his back and work with him, he could go down as being one of the best Presidents we have ever had. He is trying to fix what is wrong in this country, whether you agree with the way he is going about it or not. We are on track with a great, improving economy with new trade agreements, a better tax structure, and are in direct conversation with long time enemies. The prospects for a more conservative judiciary is looking up also. I can't wait . It's a shame that we can't have a lifetime President like FDR again. Unfortunately, Trump isn't that young though, so it's a moot point.
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You are entitled your opinion, here's mine:

Maybe if he would similarly try to work with others (you know, like really smart people who are actually really smart and informed on the details) who offering differing opinions and refrain from calling them out publicly we could achieve great things. You can't be a great leader by alienating 2/3 of your constituents.

And why the assumption that trump has all the answers? He demonstrates all the characteristics of someone who is way out of his depth, yet so many still hold faith in him.

PS, the economy was in great shape when he arrived to office. All he has to do is not screw it up.
 
#16
#16
AirVol said:
It took someone like Trump to expose the DC corruption and finally we can see how transparent the Dims are by their actions.
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Trump's circles are just as corrupt, if not more, than the DC circles that existed before him. Those before him may have skirted the rules, the new gang in town disregards the rules.

And I'm not a democrat, so I'll save you the trouble.
 
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