Haslam and His Money

#28
#28
AndyMizunogolfer said:
Anyone clamoring for UT to pull the Haslam's power has no clue how big money works. Its not just the fact that they donate 50-100 million yearly. Its the fact that they have money on tap that UT can use at any point that it might be needed. Now do I think that they are somewhat a cancer when it comes to calling the shots on coaches yes. Although at the end of the day you know who is calling the shots. If you don't like it being done this way then I guess find a new university. Its not changing.
Click to expand...

I doubt they give $100 million yearly. Collectively, they are only worth about 5 billion. $100 million is a lot of money, even for someone worth 5 billion. And consider, that 5 billion is not liquid.

Also, considering the entire University of Knoxville endowment is 642 million as of 2017, I doubt they are giving $100 million per year.

And yes, it could and will change at some point. Somebody was bigger and badder before they came along.
 
Last edited:
#29
#29
TN_Transplant said:
I doubt they give $100 million yearly. Collectively, they are only worth about 5 billion. $100 million is a lot of money, even for someone worth 5 billion. And consider, that 5 billion is not liquid.
Click to expand...

Ok so say they give 2-3 million yearly. Do you think the issue is yearly donations? The issue is their money on tap that UT can use at any minute.
 
#30
#30
AndyMizunogolfer said:
Ok so say they give 2-3 million yearly. Do you think the issue is yearly donations? The issue is their money on tap that UT can use at any minute.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah, but that can be worked around. I can get a lot of money easily from a loan shark. Much more and easier from a bank. But if I get bones broken every time I do it, maybe I should borrow from the bank.
 
#31
#31
TN_Transplant said:
It's just a calculated risk. But a pretty safe one. You are selling what the public already wants to buy. The belief is that Haslam is the problem. They don't help themselves in any way, shape, or form. They Browns are perfect leverage.

If you come to me wanting to buy a diamond ring of a certain cut and clarity, and I have that certain cut and clarity, it's a pretty easy sell if the price is right.

I'm not talking about a 40% jump in price. It's marginal. If I can add 1 dollar to your phone bill to eliminate child hunger, and you already want to donate to child hunger, that's an easy sell.
Click to expand...

Sticking with our conversation, how do you add 10% or more to the price of tickets without a reason other than a plan to run off the major investor?

There is a price that the market will bear and a resistance point. You must have market research to understand where that point it. You can't sell such a risky business plan on bravado and confidence.

We have not even began the conversation regarding the political implications of such a coup. We should probably save that for later.

I have been asking you for a plan that is truly impossible to make without proper research. I appreciate your thoughts on that matter.

Let me give you some of my thoughts on how you might consider reducing the Haslam influence.

It is easy to get distracted by the money. However, that is not the true currency in which motivates those at the top. Money is the currency to buy influence. The operational currency is power and influence. Now, that sounds like it is a bad thing and many have corrupted it. However, power and influence is not bad in itself. One could say that the ultimate prize is control, perceived or expressed.

So, one approach to consider is to evaluate current donors, which you should know very well, and start a discussion with a donor that better aligns with your goals and methods and with more money than power. Sell the influence to that person. No need to risk covert plans financed on the back of fans through price increases.

Well, just an alternative thought. I would appreciate your observations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#32
#32
Hubbard said:
Sticking with our conversation, how do you add 10% or more to the price of tickets without a reason other than a plan to run off the major investor?

There is a price that the market will bear and a resistance point. You must have market research to understand where that point it. You can't sell such a risky business plan on bravado and confidence.

We have not even began the conversation regarding the political implications of such a coup. We should probably save that for later.

I have been asking you for a plan that is truly impossible to make without proper research. I appreciate your thoughts on that matter.

Let me give you some of my thoughts on how you might consider reducing the Haslam influence.

It is easy to get distracted by the money. However, that is not the true currency in which motivates those at the top. Money is the currency to buy influence. The operational currency is power and influence. Now, that sounds like it is a bad thing and many have corrupted it. However, power and influence is not bad in itself. One could say that the ultimate prize is control, perceived or expressed.

So, one approach to consider is to evaluate current donors, which you should know very well, and start a discussion with a donor that better aligns with your goals and methods and with more money than power. Sell the influence to that person. No need to risk covert plans financed on the back of fans through price increases.

Well, just an alternative thought. I would appreciate your observations.
Click to expand...

Well, you make a very valid point, but I ask for your apologies. I made an assumption I guess. As part of my $20 million plan, it would be to renegotiate with other boosters. That includes the power and influence you discuss.

There can't be a regime change without the power and influence that comes along with it.

And yes, connections, power, and influence are what you are going for, at the end of the day, the almighty dollar rules supreme. That power and influence is bought and paid for.

You just have to find the right person (or more realistically, people) to back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#33
#33
TN_Transplant said:
Well, you make a very valid point, but I ask for your apologies. I made an assumption I guess. As part of my $20 million plan, it would be to renegotiate with other boosters. That includes the power and influence you discuss.

There can't be a regime change without the power and influence that comes along with it.

And yes, connections, power, and influence are what you are going for, at the end of the day, the almighty dollar rules supreme. That power and influence is bought and paid for.

You just have to find the right person (or more realistically, people) to back.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the conversation.

My apologies if I was covering the same ground as Andy. I didn't realize you were conversing with him as well as with me. I am posting with fairly limited time today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#34
#34
Been arguing with Hubbard all afternoon in another thread, maybe he's wrong, maybe I'm wrong, maybe we are both wrong. He's spot on through this one. You can't count on our money like Haslam's money. You have people sick of paying for bad football, except for Haslam apparently, so you can't raise ticket prices. People are so mad you can't count on them buying more apparel either.

Haslam's booster money can only be replaced by another booster. That's Egret and nobody.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#36
#36
glhal2814 said:
Been arguing with Hubbard all afternoon in another thread, maybe he's wrong, maybe I'm wrong, maybe we are both wrong. He's spot on through this one. You can't count on our money like Haslam's money. You have people sick of paying for bad football, except for Haslam apparently, so you can't raise ticket prices. People are so mad you can't count on them buying more apparel either.

Haslam's booster money can only be replaced by another booster. That's Egret and nobody.
Click to expand...

Does charlie Ergen even donate substantial money??
 
#37
#37
It just seems like a daunting task to me. I feel it would be worth it but daunting nonetheless.

As pointed out earlier, getting money trickled in a little at a time is possible but there has to be a large allotment on tap as well. To get that from another source (or sources) there has to be an obvious gain in power and control. For that gain, there needs to be more than just money in return for UT and not just for football but classroom as well as across all sports. This source must already have power and all the necessary connections (political-State and Federal, educational, etc).

Not to mention the Haslam roots run deep on Rocky Top. Plenty of Haslam puppets that would still be on the Hill constantly throwing monkey wrenches into any plan that doesn't include the HoH.

This is all admittedly above my head, just seems tough from my perspective.
 
#38
#38
I really didn't mean to revive this old thread, I was just linking to it in another to show that my plan was mildly prophetic. $10 ticket price and adding alcohol sales (concessions) will generate another ~$15 million a year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TN Outlaw
#39
#39
I know that they have given 50 million in one donation once and that is not the only donation they have made.
 
#40
#40
volsportsfan said:
Does charlie Ergen even donate substantial money??
Click to expand...
Relative to the Haslams, no. Even if he did word is that he isn't interested in being a power player at the University anyway. He gives money but doesn't really tell them what to do or get involved in political fights. He lives out in Colorado.

What's ironic is that he has a net worth about 3.5x greater than that of Haslam, but he isn't a dominant figure among some of the other boosters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TN_Transplant
#41
#41
orangelo said:
Preface: I know that this is a crazy concept.
Does anyone have any idea how much the Haslam's traditionally have donate annually to the football program? I was just wondering how many $100-$1000 donations in the name of no Haslam it would take to make their money a push. I'm sure you could come up with 10k-20k people that care enough about UT and less about control that would donate to offset the cutting of ties of them.
Click to expand...

Its more about having people in power that will have the fortitude to stand up to those bullies and limit their decision making influence and control. But when the Haslam's have the ability to hand pick these positions you get what we have endured the last 15+ years. Cheek, DiPietro, Hamilton, Kiffin, Currie, Dooley, Jones, Bev, but in the end she did stand up to them and neutered Currie and hired Fulmer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jbr82 and TN_Transplant
#42
#42
midtnvol2 said:
Its more about having people in power that will have the fortitude to stand up to those bullies and limit their decision making influence and control. But when the Haslam's have the ability to hand pick these positions you get what we have endured the last 15+ years. Cheek, DiPietro, Hamilton, Kiffin, Currie, Dooley, Jones, Bev, but in the end she did stand up to them and neutered Currie and hired Fulmer.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, she neutered him when he was about to bring us a legit coach. My belief is, Currie finally cracked from the intense pressure an was going to appease the fan base and defy the Haslams. Sean Salsbury even,sent out a tweet about the admin screwing over the fan base yet again.
 
Last edited:
#43
#43
midtnvol2 said:
Its more about having people in power that will have the fortitude to stand up to those bullies and limit their decision making influence and control. But when the Haslam's have the ability to hand pick these positions you get what we have endured the last 15+ years. Cheek, DiPietro, Hamilton, Kiffin, Currie, Dooley, Jones, Bev, but in the end she did stand up to them and neutered Currie and hired Fulmer.
Click to expand...
As someone pointed out earlier in this thread last year, the Haslams' power comes not just from their money but from their connections. Relatively speaking, they are old money and so deeply embedded in the culture and organization of the University. Just look at a guy like Big Jim Haslam...he played under Neyland. They are blue blood, well-connected, old money. Their company (Pilot) is everywhere. A member of the family is the Governor of the state and they have been involved in Knoxville politics for decades. Another member of the family owns an NFL team. Jimmy Haslam is a personal friend and fraternity brother of Bob Corker. The connections run deep, to say the least. Having money is just one component of being a blue blood. There's a booster out there with more money than the Haslams, Ergen, but he isn't a blue blood.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tennvols77, TN_Transplant and Sara Clark
#44
#44
I know the bloodline runs deep, but as the OP's question goes, how do you limit the biggest problem who happens to be the biggest blue blooded donor? Sadly the dysfunction will continue to rein.
 
#46
#46
For argument's sake, let's say Haslam wasn't part of the picture for the last 10 years since Fulmer was fired. What would be different? I presume you think he has too much influence over coaching decisions (which I agree with by the way). What coach do you think would have been hired instead of Kiffin, Dooley, Butch, Pruitt? Outside of a couple of coaches (e.g., Saban, Meyer), there is no sure thing out there so I'm not 100% convinced our situation would be drastically different.
 
#47
#47
RollinVol said:
big jim i know gave 32.5 millionmillion in one donation. it was recognized at the umass game. that donation was like 10 years ago.little jimmy and dee give like 10 million for scholarships, not sure if thats every year though. in 2014 the family came together and gave $50 million and then hence haslam college of business.
Click to expand...

Natalie Haslam School of Music also opened in 2013 after a large donation. 42 million comes to mind but I don't know if that was total or what they pitched in.
 
#48
#48
bluevols27 said:
Bro, they have many buildings on campus named after them. They are the largest donors to the university and have been for many decades. They are deeply immersed in the culture, decision making processes, and business decisions that go on in and around the entire university system. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Jimmy 3 fancies himself some sort of Football god-father who understands the game. He clearly doesn't, and is inept in football decision making processes. We all suffer because of it. See Cleveland Browns organization past 10 years, and Pilot fraud to reference his actual personal merits. His daddy was the real Pilot pioneer, and he is the golden-boy pulling the strings behind the scenes. The sad thing is that his ego is screwing us all over with these atrocious hires.
Click to expand...

I think he is a Jerry Jones wannabe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MaTaLa, TN_Transplant and 05_never_again
#49
#49
jps2194 said:
For argument's sake, let's say Haslam wasn't part of the picture for the last 10 years since Fulmer was fired. What would be different? I presume you think he has too much influence over coaching decisions (which I agree with by the way). What coach do you think would have been hired instead of Kiffin, Dooley, Butch, Pruitt? Outside of a couple of coaches (e.g., Saban, Meyer), there is no sure thing out there so I'm not 100% convinced our situation would be drastically different.
Click to expand...
It's really hard to say. I could be wrong, but the influence of the Haslams got turbocharged after Fulmer was fired. The firing of Fulmer was a huge battle that the Haslams won, and they enjoyed the spoils for many years after that. I think it is fair to say that if the Haslams weren't part of the picture, Fulmer would have remained for some period of time after 2008. A sizable portion of the fanbase and boosters (think guys like Thornton and Anderson, among others) never wanted him fired, and this same booster faction pushed for Fulmer to be AD last year. If Fulmer remained, that would have been a bad situation as well. I don't disagree that we might still be in a bad position even if the Haslams didn't exist; the admin/booster climate is excessively political, much more so than most other major universities.

The real damage of the Haslams comes when the people they push into admin positions (AD, Chancellor, etc.) make bad personnel decisions.

Mike Hamilton has to be the worst AD at any major school in the last 50 years, and I believe he came into the AD job to begin with not being on the best of terms with Fulmer. There were rumblings when Fulmer was fired that Hamilton had been trying to build support for a Fulmer firing as early as 2005, that first losing season, and it really sowed division within the athletic department. The snowball got rolling when Hamilton hired Kiffin, didn't secure a huge buyout in the contract, and he left after a year. Tennessee was in a very compromised position due to the timing of Kiffin's departure, so he was essentially forced into hiring an unprepared, in-over-his-head guy like Dooley. By the next time we had to hire a coach, Hamilton was gone and replaced by Dave Hart, and he hired a guy in Butch who just turned out to not be a great coach.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top