Karma: Trophy Hunter Crushed by Shot Elephant

#3
#3
Sad that both lost their lives...I support hunting for food..not a fan of trophy hunting


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The bolded part there shows how ignorant ( in the literal sense not being offensive) of the actual situation people are. This is through NO fault of their own, but due to the one sided Disney inspired propaganda force fed to people. Despite what the tree huggers would have you believe they are not as endangered as they say. Africa is a big continent with many countries and each is different. Some have few animals others has an excess. It's like comparing the elk population of Tennessee to that of Colorado or the grizzly population in the lower 48 to Alaska. Just because numbers may be low in one area doesn't mean you don't have high numbers in another that HAVE to be controlled.

These animals ARE being used for food. Yes they are killed by paying hunters for trophy, but that is not all that is taken. They don't just shoot the animal, cut off the tusks, and ride off into the sunset. The entire animal is processed and used by the workers of the safari company and the local villages. Nothing goes to waste. The same can't be said for those animals killed by poachers.

The trophy hunting also helps to protect the animals because it gives them a higher value as a resource than as a nuisance. Large African game like elephants are dangerous and destructive. They attack locals, they destroy crops, and tear down livestock fence. Without the money coming in to the locals from hunting they would take it upon themselves to kill/poach these animals themselves. As it is, most of the cost of a safari goes back into the local people to offset the loses they suffer, plus has the added benefit of thinning the herd. A typical elephant hunt will cost a hunter between 20-$40,000 when you factor in guide fees, tags, trophy fees, and airfare. The hunting is also highly regulated, there are very strict quotas set up not just by the locals but internationally by the CITIES council.

It has also been proven, those countries that allow responsible managed hunting ( South Africa, Zimbabwe, an others) have healthier and more stable populations than those that have banned hunting (Kenya) and have less loss from poaching. That is because A: the animals have more value as a renewable resource , and B: more money coming in to affords more and better law enforcement/ management.
 
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#4
#4
The bolded part there shows how ignorant ( in the literal sense not being offensive) of the actual situation people are. This is through NO fault of their own, but due to the one sided Disney inspired propaganda force fed to people. Despite what the tree huggers would have you believe they are not as endangered as they say. Africa is a big continent with many countries and each is different. Some have few animals others has an excess. It's like comparing the elk population of Tennessee to that of Colorado or the grizzly population in the lower 48 to Alaska. Just because numbers may be low in one area doesn't mean you don't have high numbers in another that HAVE to be controlled.

These animals ARE being used for food. Yes they are killed by paying hunters for trophy, but that is not all that is taken. They don't just shoot the animal, cut off the tusks, and ride off into the sunset. The entire animal is processed and used by the workers of the safari company and the local villages. Nothing goes to waste. The same can't be said for those animals killed by poachers.

The trophy hunting also helps to protect the animals because it gives them a higher value as a resource than as a nuisance. Large African game like elephants are dangerous and destructive. They attack locals, they destroy crops, and tear down livestock fence. Without the money coming in to the locals from hunting they would take it upon themselves to kill/poach these animals themselves. As it is, most of the cost of a safari goes back into the local people to offset the loses they suffer, plus has the added benefit of thinning the herd. A typical elephant hunt will cost a hunter between 20-$40,000 when you factor in guide fees, tags, trophy fees, and airfare. The hunting is also highly regulated, there are very strict quotas set up not just by the locals but internationally by the CITIES council.

It has also been proven, those countries that allow responsible managed hunting ( South Africa, Zimbabwe, an others) have healthier and more stable populations than those that have banned hunting (Kenya) and have less loss from poaching. That is because A: the animals have more value as a renewable resource , and B: more money coming in to affords more and better law enforcement/ management.

This 100%. You can manage the herd through hunting and actually increase the size and health of the herd. This true with any species.
 
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#5
#5
The bolded part there shows how ignorant ( in the literal sense not being offensive) of the actual situation people are. This is through NO fault of their own, but due to the one sided Disney inspired propaganda force fed to people. Despite what the tree huggers would have you believe they are not as endangered as they say. Africa is a big continent with many countries and each is different. Some have few animals others has an excess. It's like comparing the elk population of Tennessee to that of Colorado or the grizzly population in the lower 48 to Alaska. Just because numbers may be low in one area doesn't mean you don't have high numbers in another that HAVE to be controlled.

These animals ARE being used for food. Yes they are killed by paying hunters for trophy, but that is not all that is taken. They don't just shoot the animal, cut off the tusks, and ride off into the sunset. The entire animal is processed and used by the workers of the safari company and the local villages. Nothing goes to waste. The same can't be said for those animals killed by poachers.

The trophy hunting also helps to protect the animals because it gives them a higher value as a resource than as a nuisance. Large African game like elephants are dangerous and destructive. They attack locals, they destroy crops, and tear down livestock fence. Without the money coming in to the locals from hunting they would take it upon themselves to kill/poach these animals themselves. As it is, most of the cost of a safari goes back into the local people to offset the loses they suffer, plus has the added benefit of thinning the herd. A typical elephant hunt will cost a hunter between 20-$40,000 when you factor in guide fees, tags, trophy fees, and airfare. The hunting is also highly regulated, there are very strict quotas set up not just by the locals but internationally by the CITIES council.

It has also been proven, those countries that allow responsible managed hunting ( South Africa, Zimbabwe, an others) have healthier and more stable populations than those that have banned hunting (Kenya) and have less loss from poaching. That is because A: the animals have more value as a renewable resource , and B: more money coming in to affords more and better law enforcement/ management.

In theory this is true but elephants in particular, are dwindling and the money, that was supposed to help the villagers, isn't getting to them.


But a closer look at trophy hunting in Africa shows that the industry employs few people and that the money from hunt fees that trickles down to needy villagers is minimal. Government corruption can be a factor. In Zimbabwe, for instance, individuals associated with President Robert Mugabe have seized lands in lucrative hunting areas. Trophy hunting isn’t stopping poaching, especially in countries that have a poor record of protecting their wildlife.
Six countries—South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, Namibia, and Tanzania—have many of the remaining savanna elephants. Along with Cameroon and Gabon, these nations allow sport hunting regardless of the level of decline in their elephant populations. (Botswana, which has more than 130,000 elephants by one recent estimate, has banned trophy hunting.)
According to the latest figures, Tanzania’s elephant population has fallen from nearly 110,000 in 2009 to just over 43,000 at the end of 2014—a 60 percent drop. *Mozambique’s elephants declined from an estimated 20,000 to 10,300 during the same period. In Zimbabwe, a recent survey shows massive losses in some parks.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ng-elephants-tusks-poaching-zimbabwe-namibia/
 
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#7
#7
This 100%. You can manage the herd through hunting and actually increase the size and health of the herd. This true with any species.

Indeed. The elephant would have died off long ago had we not developed trophy hunting. They are lucky we helped them out.
 
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#8
#8
Indeed. The elephant would have died off long ago had we not developed trophy hunting. They are lucky we helped them out.

Same thing with whales. Had it not been for hunting whales to extinction we wouldn't have had Star Trek IV.
 
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#9
#9
####posted by mobile, apologies ahead of time for typing/link errors###


I can't debate the actual numbers on how much % $ makes it to the locals, but the fact is they do get some benefits from it. As for numbers of elephants, very few are taken by hunters as it is. South Africa for example has between 20-30k animals. Of that they only allowed harvest of 150 animals. That is much less than 1% of the population, of that the majority of are older male animals, no longer of breeding age, and pushed out by younger stronger males. They are removed from the population when they are no longer an vital part and before they starve to dead from tooth wear. Add to that NONE of the studies attribute legal hunting for the declines. It is caused by poaching. It is proven that those countries that have established hunting programs are better able to combat poachers. Benefits also aren't purely monetary, the food benefits also help tremendously.

Of 52 conservancies that had any sort of financial benefit from wildlife (that is, their income was higher than their expenses), more than half derived all or almost all those benefits from hunting. Just six were wholly or mostly reliant on ecotourism, while 18 conservancies benefited equally from both activities. Still, from a statistical perspective, neither form of tourism won out as being more beneficial than the other, with one small exception: after beginning their tourism operations, conservancies drew benefits from hunting more rapidly (within 3 years) than from ecotourism (which took 6 years, on average).

Also different were the kinds of benefits that each activity offered to the conservancies. To put it plainly, hunting offered money and meat while ecotourism offered employment. Between 2011 and 2013, hunting operations paid $5.41 million to community conservancies, while ecotourism operations paid $2.13 million. (Buffalo and elephant, by the way, were the most lucrative trophies, with elephants representing 55% of all hunting-related income.)

It was when Naidoo simulated a ban on trophy hunting that things became really interesting. In 2013, 74% of conservancies had income that was greater than their operating expenses. In other words, they were in the black. But if they were deprived of hunting-related income, only 16% of conservancies would have been able to pay all their bills. That’s some 50,000 square kilometers of land that would go without important protections.

By contrast, if the opposite were to occur – if communities were deprived of ecotourism-related revenue – they would still feel it, but the impact would be smaller. In that scenario, 59% of conservancies would remain in the black.

http://www.conservationmagazine.org/2015

https://conservationaction.co.za/re...88-african-elephants-may-legally-hunted-2017/
 
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#10
#10
Indeed. The elephant would have died off long ago had we not developed trophy hunting. They are lucky we helped them out.

###once again posted from phone so I apologize ahead of time for typos.###

Apples and oranges. Legal, regulated hunting was not what brought them to the brink. Unregulated massive commercial ivory hunting done got over 100 years followed by rampant poaching after the end of the ivory trade caused it. Not much like white tail deer, river otter and beaver were commercially hunted and trapped also to extinction. It was not until regulated management programs started till they made a come back. Now they have healthy populations that support and in many cases need hunting to manage populations. The same is the case in Africa. In many areas elephant numbers are high enough they have a negative impact on both the environment and the locals. The governments have been having to control local populations for decades. Try googling "elephant culls". Government killers would wipe out whole herds of problem elephants in one day. Most would go to waste before locals could get to all of it. Hunting has much more benefits.
 
#11
#11
Seemed like as fair a fight as could be expected. Man's gun kills elephant, elephant's size crushes man. Stalemate.
 
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#12
#12
Indeed. The elephant would have died off long ago had we not developed trophy hunting. They are lucky we helped them out.

Probably because there is a reason to protect the herd. If you don't have a herd you cant charge $50K to hunt one. You guys seriously need to read up on game conservation before you spout off. Your​ ignorance is on full display. And when u say read up I'm not talking about the liberal pamphlets that know zero.
 
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#14
#14
Probably because there is a reason to protect the herd. If you don't have a herd you cant charge $50K to hunt one. You guys seriously need to read up on game conservation before you spout off. Your​ ignorance is on full display. And when u say read up I'm not talking about the liberal pamphlets that know zero.

Not a liberal here, go do your own reading.

I don't care if people hunt or if they don't, but paying big dollars just to bag one of these, makes you a douche.

Again, I am quite confident mother nature can manage herds.
 
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#15
#15
Not a liberal here, go do your own reading.

I don't care if people hunt or if they don't, but paying big dollars just to bag one of these, makes you a douche.

Again, I am quite confident mother nature can manage herds.

Again. You don't know what you're talking about. Who do you think protects these herds from poachers? If you have a product that makes you serious cash, wouldn't you want to protect it? The governments are not spending resources protecting the herds. The game managers hire security to hunt for poachers. You know zero about the situation. And if you mean the poachers are mother nature's herd reduction arm, you are delirious.
 
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#16
#16
Again. You don't know what you're talking about. Who do you think protects these herds from poachers? If you have a product that makes you serious cash, wouldn't you want to protect it? The governments are not spending resources protecting the herds. The game managers hire security to hunt for poachers. You know zero about the situation. And if you mean the poachers are mother nature's herd reduction arm, you are delirious.

Blow hard much?
 
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#20
#20
Someone pays big money to hunt an animal = douche.

Pretty straightforward.

I would never pay for a hunt for elephant in Africa. Not really my thing but to wish death on the ones that do and claim that the overall effect on the game population fro. These hunts is somehow negative is misinformed.
 
#22
#22
I would never pay for a hunt for elephant in Africa. Not really my thing but to wish death on the ones that do and claim that the overall effect on the game population fro. These hunts is somehow negative is misinformed.

Take a deep breath, then post.
 
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