French Drain Help

[mrorange211]

I need to install a french drain around the perimeter of my house, and I have some questions I hope some of you can help me with.

1.) Should I use the french drain as a retaining wall or is it best to instal the drain about 2 feet away from the footer?

2.) Should I dig the trench about 12 inches deep?

3.) There is a particular portion of my home that is a "dead end". What I mean by this is my wall runs along a line and then comes out horizontally due to an addition added the home. This has created a "dead space" where water sometimes stands in a heavy rain. I am not sure how to proceed with installing a french drain in this circumstance. Should I simply dig 12 inches down and then create a slope away from the house?

4.) Should I dig around the foundation completely all the way to the footer to install liquid rubber?

5.) Is EZ pipe best to use or should I go the with the standard gravel/corrugated pipe method?

Any help from someone would be greatly appreciated. My house was built in 1897 and this is long overdo.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

I need to install a french drain around the perimeter of my house, and I have some questions I hope some of you can help me with.

Before you start planning, right now, call 811, 'Call Before You Dig'. To locate any buried gas, electric, cable, water, etc. lines entering the house or where the discharge will carry away. If in a location with city or county inspection jurisdiction, visit that office to see if there are any local restrictions and requirements. Don't want to have a discharge to the street if they're not allowed and buyers home inspector gigs you at sale time.

http://www.historicnewengland.org/preservation/your-older-or-historic-home/a-z-primer

Many houses built in that era (1897) had foundations made of brick or stone. The lime putty mortar was much softer. Some foundations may only have had one wyth (single course wide) of brick. Better walls had double wyth with a brick laid across wyths to tie them together. Many exterior walls could be more, depending on height of house.

http://usheritage.com/repointing-mortars/

http://www.carsondunlop.com/resources/articles/brick-houses-solid-masonry-vs-brick-veneer/

Damaged foundations should be repaired with similar mortar, not modern. Modern mortars set up much harder and will crack the material around it. So get a little help from a mason who has done preservation restoration of old houses. This will be the most important task of the project. Inspect & repair the foundation courses and stem walls before waterproofing and covering up again.

First off: A traditional french drain is slotted on top and allows surface water to run into it and be carried off. So it is a landscape drain. Modern systems can be an underground 'holding tank' catching fast rainfall and slowly dispersing it. You're choice. A traditional french drain with discharge below and away and within any local code restrictions will always work. A 'holding tank' type, which is what the E-Z Pipe system appears to be MUST be properly sized or you've only exasperated your problem.

A footer drain sits at the level of the footer, is now made with 4" dia 'holey' or slotted black flex pipe (instead of fired clay as in past) and has a 'sock' on it to filter out the 'fines' from the washed construction gravel you cover it with up to 4" below grade, then cover gravel with burlap or landscape cloth then with soil or landscape rock, pavers, etc. to grade for appearance. Always slope surface away from the house.

1.) Should I use the french drain as a retaining wall or is it best to instal the drain about 2 feet away from the footer?

French drains should not be installed at the footer, -generally- you may have a special case. Footer drains are for that purpose.-generally- ... Never dig below the level of your existing footer's base. It can cause the foundation to sag.

Be more specific in your 'retaining wall' part of the question. Are you on a significant slope?

2.) Should I dig the trench about 12 inches deep?

+++++++++++++++++++!!!!!!!!
If you choose a footer drain, dig only to have the trench bottom just above the bottom of the footer. Do not dig against the footer below the bottom of the footer! Even if, as some older houses were, it is only 6 or 8 inches below grade in some locations. Water during heavy rains will carry soil fines and silt out from under the footer and cause the house the settle unevenly cracking interior walls.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3.) There is a particular portion of my home that is a "dead end". What I mean by this is my wall runs along a line and then comes out horizontally due to an addition added the home. This has created a "dead space" where water sometimes stands in a heavy rain. I am not sure how to proceed with installing a french drain in this circumstance. Should I simply dig 12 inches down and then create a slope away from the house?

Install a seperate "landscape drain" for this location. About 8 to 10 in square box is available at Home Depot or Lowes.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT connect landscape and footer drain together until they are a (i forgot) minimum feet from the house AND a minimum of 2 pipe diameters (8") below bottom of the footer drain pipe at the lowest corner as you carry the water away from the house to a discharge outlet. This prevents landscape water flow, which is much heavier than footer drain flow, from going back up the footer drain and turning the soil around the foundation to slop. Once again, causing a sagging foundation. Use a purpose made discharge or cover the discharge with a perforated cap or woven wire, etc.to prevent vermin entrance.

4.) Should I dig around the foundation completely all the way to the footer to install liquid rubber?

Yes. This will let you inspect and repair below grade stem walls. Lightly wash with a nozzle on garden hose and mason's brush on a handle. Use a bucket, a little care and don't make a mudhole you have to wait for it to dry to continue.

Pressure wash if and only if a new modern mortar has been used for repair all around or you can blow out the lime putty mortar and have to repoint the wall. Dig around to bottom of footer, only with matching mortar. Measure length and depth and figure square footage. Go to a construction supply and get Sixty (60) mil asphaltic foundation waterproofing, and adhesive to do the job.

https://www.tamko.com/Waterproofing/TW-60SheetWaterproofingMembrane


Cover that with a (i forgot name, but i'll get it) which will easily carry water against house to the footer drain without a hydrostatic buildup of water pressure on the foundation wanting to find any way it can to move through the wall to the soil under the house.

5.) Is EZ pipe best to use or should I go the with the standard gravel/corrugated pipe method?

If the E-Z Pipe you're talking about is covered with styrofoam pebbles in a permeable wrap, I haven't built with that. Maybe ithers can comment on it.

Any help from someone would be greatly appreciated. My house was built in 1897 and this is long overdo.

All houses that old had exterior walls and trim covered with lead based paint. That is "white lead" powder was mixed with linseed oil and pigments to make a paint. Chalking, pelling, scraping over the years results in a potentially dangerous level of lead in the soil beside exterior walls, trim and painted fencelines. Use due diligence, especially if you have children. Never let them play up against the foundation.

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/lead/homes/worksoil.html

Copy below words and paste into a google search. Then click on Images and study the pics until you can see the differences.

footer drain design images

http://m.swrionline.org/site/RestorationAndWaterProofingLinks

That's about all I can give you without better specifics.

 

[malinoisvol]

mrorange, I take it from your post that you are wanting to install a DIY foundation drainage system around your home.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and study every bit of information you can lay your eyes on. Then hire a contractor to perform the task.

However...

If your home has no basement, you should be able to DIY. Depends on where you live, and the building codes for where you are as to how deep your footers are, which will determine how deep you will be digging.

Some of the materiel required:

- 4" perforated COREX drain pipe with "sock" (Black flexible pipe). You can buy this at a box store with a sock already installed in 10' sections, or, buy the pipe in a 100' roll and install the sock yourself.

- Gravel (not just any) it needs to be 3/4 - 1" WASHED gravel.

- A geotextile (i.e., weed block) that allows water through, but, not dirt.

It is an involved process for the DIY'er. There are several posters on VN that have experience in this endeavor. Be patient.

EDIT: See above post.

 

[mrorange211]

I am a teacher so this will be my summer project. I wanna take my time and do it the right way. I know it's a big job but I simply don't have the money to pay someone thousands fo dollars to do this. Thus, I'm hoping you fine people can help me out as I progress. I'll post pictures with progress.

 

[malinoisvol]

I am a teacher so this will be my summer project. I wanna take my time and do it the right way. I know it's a big job but I simply don't have the money to pay someone thousands fo dollars to do this. Thus, I'm hoping you fine people can help me out as I progress. I'll post pictures with progress.

Can you post some pre-excavation pix. All 4 sides of the house + a street view (so to be able see banks, hills, etc...)

Slab, crawl space, basement?

Tennessee, Alaska, Lousiana?

 

[mrorange211]

Can you post some pre-excavation pix. All 4 sides of the house + a street view (so to be able see banks, hills, etc...)

Slab, crawl space, basement?

Tennessee, Alaska, Lousiana?

Yep. Gimme a bit and I will post them today. I live in Tennessee.

 

[Roustabout]

ez pipe is crazy expensive.

remember that french drains don't fix grading issues. proper grade will chanel water away from the foundation.

so, before you dig a trench, make sure the property can't be regraded by a qualified bobcat tech.

I had several areas done around my house and eliminated water issues.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I need to install a french drain around the perimeter of my house, and I have some questions I hope some of you can help me with.

1.) Should I use the french drain as a retaining wall or is it best to instal the drain about 2 feet away from the footer?

2.) Should I dig the trench about 12 inches deep?

3.) There is a particular portion of my home that is a "dead end". What I mean by this is my wall runs along a line and then comes out horizontally due to an addition added the home. This has created a "dead space" where water sometimes stands in a heavy rain. I am not sure how to proceed with installing a french drain in this circumstance. Should I simply dig 12 inches down and then create a slope away from the house?

4.) Should I dig around the foundation completely all the way to the footer to install liquid rubber?

5.) Is EZ pipe best to use or should I go the with the standard gravel/corrugated pipe method?

Any help from someone would be greatly appreciated. My house was built in 1897 and this is long overdo.

What is EZ pipe? Google search didn't help.

 

[TNsnyper20]

What is EZ pipe? Google search didn't help.

No expert but I believe it's the flexible black drain pipes with insulation already around. So no need for gravel. Just lay it down and cover it up.

 

[ajvol01]

What is EZ pipe? Google search didn't help.

Search EZ Drain

 

[mrorange211]

Supposedly, EZ Drain makes the process a lot easier in comparison to the traditional method with gravel. It's about $40 at Lowes for a 10 ft section, however.

 

[alwaysvol]

ez pipe is crazy expensive.

remember that french drains don't fix grading issues. proper grade will chanel water away from the foundation.

so, before you dig a trench, make sure the property can't be regraded by a qualified bobcat tech.

I had several areas done around my house and eliminated water issues.

I'd like to add to this, make sure your guttering is clean and working properly, and if you are using splash blocks, consider using 4" pipe at the end to get water away from the house.

Like someone else said, need Pictures to really give good advice.

 

[mrorange211]

I'd like to add to this, make sure your guttering is clean and working properly, and if you are using splash blocks, consider using 4" pipe at the end to get water away from the house.

Like someone else said, need Pictures to really give good advice.

Recently put on some good gutters last August. I will have pics up by this afternoon.

 

[davethevol]

Recently put on some good gutters last August. I will have pics up by this afternoon.

Maybe you're like me and have a spring that runs under the house. Heavy rains push water up into the crawl space and there is nothing I can do other than using a sump pump and dehumidifier to remove the moisture. Just make sure you've actually isolated the issue or issues before throwing the time and money at it.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Roustabout's & Dave's posts above hit on a truth. Groundwater.

While it is extremely rare for a home to be built above a spring, it is not unusual for a home to be built on a hillside or sloping lot. Lots of these have poor foundation design, poor elevation above grade to provide proper slope away from the house and finally landscaping bushes that effectively poke holes in the 'slope' (however little it may be) to allow groundwater to flow into the softer, usually incorrectly backfilled, soil around the foundation.

This water can, upon certain saturation conditions, because of building hydrolic pressure, begin to well up under the house in the crawlspace, or penetrate available cracks in basement walls, and floor, or worst case push in the stem wall and tilt the house off crawlspace/basement downhill walls.

It is true that much of a wet foundations problems can be corrected by proper drainage away from the exterior walls and landscape swales uphill and a short distance away that direct flow around.

The OP's house has stood for over a century. An addition was made that traps water. I'm neginning to yhink you need to first deal with roof run off, and insure proper direction of water around and away from the house by means of swales and landscape drains. Then, reassess the need for foundation drain installation. Which, by the way, you may already have in the form of landscape tiles, whose outflow has been covered up through time.

 

[Roustabout]

Roustabout's & Dave's posts above hit on a truth. Groundwater.

While it is extremely rare for a home to be built above a spring, it is not unusual for a home to be built on a hillside or sloping lot. Lots of these have poor foundation design, poor elevation above grade to provide proper slope away from the house and finally landscaping bushes that effectively poke holes in the 'slope' (however little it may be) to allow groundwater to flow into the softer, usually incorrectly backfilled, soil around the foundation.

This water can, upon certain saturation conditions, because of building hydrolic pressure, begin to well up under the house in the crawlspace, or penetrate available cracks in basement walls, and floor, or worst case push in the stem wall and tilt the house off crawlspace/basement downhill walls.

It is true that much of a wet foundations problems can be corrected by proper drainage away from the exterior walls and landscape swales uphill and a short distance away that direct flow around.

The OP's house has stood for over a century. An addition was made that traps water. I'm neginning to yhink you need to first deal with roof run off, and insure proper direction of water around and away from the house by means of swales and landscape drains. Then, reassess the need for foundation drain installation. Which, by the way, you may already have in the form of landscape tiles, whose outflow has been covered up through time.

excellent points!

be careful with a do it yourself project. you may pay more in the long run.

 

[VolMax]

Roustabout's & Dave's posts above hit on a truth. Groundwater.

While it is extremely rare for a home to be built above a spring, it is not unusual for a home to be built on a hillside or sloping lot. Lots of these have poor foundation design, poor elevation above grade to provide proper slope away from the house and finally landscaping bushes that effectively poke holes in the 'slope' (however little it may be) to allow groundwater to flow into the softer, usually incorrectly backfilled, soil around the foundation.

This water can, upon certain saturation conditions, because of building hydrolic pressure, begin to well up under the house in the crawlspace, or penetrate available cracks in basement walls, and floor, or worst case push in the stem wall and tilt the house off crawlspace/basement downhill walls.

It is true that much of a wet foundations problems can be corrected by proper drainage away from the exterior walls and landscape swales uphill and a short distance away that direct flow around.

The OP's house has stood for over a century. An addition was made that traps water. I'm neginning to yhink you need to first deal with roof run off, and insure proper direction of water around and away from the house by means of swales and landscape drains. Then, reassess the need for foundation drain installation. Which, by the way, you may already have in the form of landscape tiles, whose outflow has been covered up through time.

Best info on the thread!

Runoff/surface water is maybe 50% of the problem. The other 50% is saturated/soaked soil. We have lots of clay and chert in ETN, both of which are absorptive soils. When we get a good soaking rain, the soil can't absorb more water and if hydrostatic pressure can cause it to puddle in crawl spaces or be forced through cracks or cold joints in a basement.

The high dollar guys (B-Dry, MasterDry, AmeriDry, AFS, etc) put a french drain around the interior of the footing. If you have a crawl space, you can do it yourself...nasty job, though. Ace has short handle shovels...that's where the pro's get theirs. They put a pipe in the drain and cover it with gravel...sloping the pipe to the lowest spot in the crawl space and discharge it with a pump in a sealed crock. A little tougher DIY job with a basement, they remove the slab inside the perimeter, dig trench, install pipe and gravel, drain to discharge point and then re-pour the slab. The reason they put it on the inside is, it won't clog up like EVERY SINGLE EXTERIOR FRENCH DRAIN EVER INSTALLED!!!

The reality is, if you slope your trench properly and fill it with large gravel, you don't need the pipe. The pipe is a gimmick. Company A's pipe has a sleeve on it, B's has smaller holes, C's is rectangular, and on and on... In reality, very little water actually gets in any pipe.

I used to work sell for one of the lifetime warranty, high dollar guys, so feel free to ask me if you have any more questions.

 

[mrorange211]

Here are some pictures of the landscape around my house. My house is built on a slope and I have tried to excavate around the edge lately to keep water draining into my home. Any help based on these photos would be great.

Also, the area where there is a campaign sign is the dead space I referred to earlier. I can also go take more specific pictures/close-up if it will help.

 

[Roustabout]

I see a lot of concerns. The ttee right next to the house. Needs to go. The concrete on the right side of house looks problematic and doesn't appear to have enough slope from house. and it's aged and showing a lot of stress.
The fence line being so close doesn't give you much room to work.

 

[VolMax]

I see a lot of concerns. The ttee right next to the house. Needs to go. The concrete on the right side of house looks problematic and doesn't appear to have enough slope from house. and it's aged and showing a lot of stress.
The fence line being so close doesn't give you much room to work.

Gotta do it from the inside...

 

[mrorange211]

I see a lot of concerns. The ttee right next to the house. Needs to go. The concrete on the right side of house looks problematic and doesn't appear to have enough slope from house. and it's aged and showing a lot of stress.
The fence line being so close doesn't give you much room to work.

In August I am having the sidewalk removed, repointing the mortar along the side, reinstalling another sidewalk with the proper slope, and installing a drain that will run alongside the sidewalk down to the curb. I am thinking this will solve most of my water problems on that side of the house.

The ttee? What are you referring to?

 

[malinoisvol]

In August I am having the sidewalk removed, repointing the mortar along the side, reinstalling another sidewalk with the proper slope, and installing a drain that will run alongside the sidewalk down to the curb. I am thinking this will solve most of my water problems on that side of the house.

The ttee? What are you referring to?

I sure he meant "tree".

What water problem are you having exactly? Wet basement? SIAP

 

[mrorange211]

Well the house was built in 1897. The mortar is basically sand at this point. I have slowly been repointing the entire brick surface of the house.

Basically, when it comes a good rain, some water come into the basement. Now, I believe the water is either coming from A.) the leaks in the mortar that I am in the process of fixing, or B.) coming from up under the house as a result of improper drainage. That why I have been excavating around the house the last two weeks. The slope of the landscape ran towards the foundation. As you can see on the side where my HVAC is, I have moved the dirt toward the foundation to create a slope away from the foundation. Was this the right thing to do?

here's my plan: install a landscape drain in the dead spot that I referred to earlier and connect it with a french drain going away from the house to the utility street in the back. I don't think this will be hard since my house is located on a downward slope; so I think getting the water to flow that direction won't be difficult---what's challenging is getting the water to flow that way first.

Any help is greatly appreciated because all I know about this is what I have read and watched from the internet.

 

[malinoisvol]

Well the house was built in 1897. The mortar is basically sand at this point. I have slowly been repointing the entire brick surface of the house.

Basically, when it comes a good rain, some water come into the basement. Now, I believe the water is either coming from A.) the leaks in the mortar that I am in the process of fixing, or B.) coming from up under the house as a result of improper drainage. That why I have been excavating around the house the last two weeks. The slope of the landscape ran towards the foundation. As you can see on the side where my HVAC is, I have moved the dirt toward the foundation to create a slope away from the foundation. Was this the right thing to do?

here's my plan: install a landscape drain in the dead spot that I referred to earlier and connect it with a french drain going away from the house to the utility street in the back. I don't think this will be hard since my house is located on a downward slope; so I think getting the water to flow that direction won't be difficult---what's challenging is getting the water to flow that way first.

Any help is greatly appreciated because all I know about this is what I have read and watched from the internet.

I have a friend that lives in Farragut. His house was built 1970 something. His landscape sounds and looks a lot like yours.

The street is in front of the house and is elevated approx 4' above the ground that surrounds his basement.

Over the years, the city/county has repaved the street a few times and now the curb that used to be there is virtually nonexistent.

When it rains, the water from the yards across the street funnels to his yard and fills his finished basement with 2 to 4 inches of water. Used to be the curb caught it and directed towards the large drainage ditch that runs along side his driveway.

I have suggested that he call (whomever has responsibility) and ask if they can put the curb back to proper height, or, improvise one himself.

Food for thought.

 

[Volunteer_Kirby]

The dead space is really an easy fix. Create an earthen swell around the perimeter of the area - underneath the structure. It needs to be compacted earthen material. You can use dirt but make sure you compact the hell out of it. Decomposed (or crushed) granite typically works well in this case, as it tends to hold it's shape longer when compacted. From there you just need to make sure the water has proper run off and isn't being barred up anywhere. If the water has proper flow then the swell will hold and water should stay out of the dead space.

Someone mentioned your sidewalk. Lol it's got to be causing problems. It almost looks insloped towards the house? Tough to tell with sun/bad camera angle. Makes me think your foundation has shifted a bit over the years. Anyways, the grade looks off. I would've taken that sidewalk out long ago and made a tread with crushed granite instead. Easier to define the outslope and you can remold it over time incase any massive rains shift the materials (this shouldnt be significant if you've tamped it correctly though).

Anyways, looks like you've got some fun work ahead of you. My #1 suggestion to you would be to go outside when it rains and study what the water does. You can learn a lot from it.