in state/regional recruits vs. national recruits

**jakez4ut** · 11-23-2005, 02:03 PM

we make a big deal about how we go out and recruit nationally...but does that hurt us sometimes from a "pride" stand point?

Not that we don't get talented players, not questioning that. But do we have enough guys on our team that can make a differenence, i.e. an Al Wilson type, that truly care about and know UT football?

you know, the kind of kid that grows up just wanting to play for ut, and when he get his shot, he becomes that leader, that guy that knows what it means to play a game against Bama, UGA, Auburn, Vandy, KY etc...

Bama and Aub consistenly have huge amounts of in state talent, GOOD talent that truly know about their respective schools and what it means to play for them...Same with all the Florida schools, TX schools, GA schools etc...

I know we don't have the in state talent in TN that some of the other states do, and i know we do relatively well in some of those other states, but usually you get that kid and he grew up a UGA fan or whatever...

I don't know, probably way off base here...but when you get a kid from NJ, OH, CA, whatever...do they really know when they get here what it means to play for UT? do they know the history?

Oh well, just wondering if anyone ever thought of that at all...

Liper · 11-23-2005, 02:09 PM

What you're saying could make some sense, I suppose. However, great players come out of non-native schools all of the time.

The NFL is probably the best example. There is really no such thing as a "childhood favorite" NFL team, in so far as it relates to reality. Ladanian Tomlinson isn't the best RB in the NFL because he has always liked the Chargers.

I'm not shooting it down altogether, but, in my opinion, this blood, guts, and pride things gets a little too much play. I think it comes down to teaching, training, disciplining, organizing, and execution. Good coaches can take any group of talented kids and get them ready.

Maybe I'm wrong but that's my view...in case you were wondering. :D

**jakez4ut** · 11-23-2005, 02:21 PM

no, you're right...that's why i asked...i just don't know....

I do think though in CFB, pride etc...does play an important role...it may not dictate who's the best player on the team or who will make the best NFL player later...but i'm a big believer in the mantra "who wants it more?".

And for me, a kid that grew up in the South, that has kept up with CFB down here and grew up a fan...would generally "want it more" than a kid that grew up in NJ that never saw a UT/Bama game liven and in person...

it probably doesn't have any bearing on the current situation, and probably had nothing to do with it when we were doing great either...

I guess i've seen Rudy too many times.

Liper · 11-23-2005, 02:29 PM

Well, I'd sure work like heck if I was playing in a TN-BAMA game.

Some of those rivalries do bleed into the new guys, but never at the level of a native.

I went to college and played a sport outside Tennessee. But I always remained a Vol fan. The school I played at had a FIERCE in-state rival. That rivalry never quite rubbed me as strong as the people who had internalized it all of the lives. So that is true I think.

CSpindizzy · 11-23-2005, 02:53 PM

I was born in TN and grew up a Vols fan. I went to UGA for two years and wore my orange proudly on campus. Something just can't seem to get me to root for UGA unless it somehow benefits UT. My loyalty is to UT but free tuition went to UGA.

**surrealvol** · 11-23-2005, 03:17 PM

I think most of the blood and guts effort has to come from within a guy and from coaching...instilling pride in the effort, the team, and the university.

CSpindizzy · 11-23-2005, 03:29 PM

I'd like to think there still are a lot of kids out there who have pictures of Smokey, Neyland Stadium, and a few UT players on the wall. But in all reality now there are too many other factors in where kids go to play sports in college. Stepping stones to the pros, chances to start as early as they can, getting away from parents or whatever. Now with parents acting more like managers promoting some sort of product rather than their own child, there's no guarantee anymore. Coaches have to placate parents more than ever and reputation means more as well. Coaches are feeling more blackmailed with parents telling them if you don't guarantee my son to play he's more likely to go elsewhere. The biggest example of parental power is the Leak family and the Clausen family.

volbreaker · 11-23-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liper@Nov 23, 2005 2:29 PM
[b]Well, I'd sure work like heck if I was playing in a TN-BAMA game.

Some of those rivalries do bleed into the new guys, but never at the level of a native.

I went to college and played a sport outside Tennessee.* But I always remained a Vol fan.* The school I played at had a FIERCE in-state rival.* That rivalry never quite rubbed me as strong as the people who had internalized it all of the lives.* So that is true I think.

[snapback]200455[/snapback]

Same for me Liper( played elsewhere), But as you said you never shook the vols thing mentally. Even if we are talking border guys like...historically..Faulkner(or inners like TD)....they knew the deal and sold-out to accomplish it. I think the NFL is a different story, but I differ because I look to you and Lex et al for great insight and info. So, I could be off-base here. I know that there are a lot of out-of-ststers that I want to come here, naturally. I just think that if there was a different staff and approach to game time we'd have the Patrick Turners of the world...and the trade0offs to non-caring, non-stetching for the catch, improper route runners may do better to stay home and show some passion rather than using us as an NFL stepping stone!!!

**tidwell** · 11-23-2005, 05:07 PM

This was brought up on a high school message board that I browse... someone mentioned that UT needs more home-grown boys that grow up dreaming about running through the T on gamedays. Not that out of state or region players wouldn't play with as much pride, but that some more homegrown talent wouldn't hurt.

DAWGNATION · 11-23-2005, 05:18 PM

Is there any known reason why Tenn. high school football produces less talent? Lets face it. There is only 1 college in Tn that kids dream of playing for. (no its not Vandy). Tenn has several large cities (Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville, Chatt.) and is a good size population. I live in South Carolina and we do not have the population but it seems Clemson, and South Carolina have a fair share of home grown talent. Ask UT how they stacked up recently the last time they played these schools. Is it just a lack of finances to get quality high school coaches? Or is there a system failure in the High SChool league? Or has girls basketball replaced football all together?

bleedingorange · 11-23-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jakez4ut@Nov 23, 2005 2:03 PM
[b]we make a big deal about how we go out and recruit nationally...but does that hurt us sometimes from a "pride" stand point?

Not that we don't get talented players, not questioning that.* But do we have enough guys on our team that can make a differenence, i.e. an Al Wilson type, that truly care about and know UT football?

you know, the kind of kid that grows up just wanting to play for ut, and when he get his shot, he becomes that leader, that guy that knows what it means to play a game against Bama, UGA, Auburn, Vandy, KY etc...

Bama and Aub consistenly have huge amounts of in state talent, GOOD talent that truly know about their respective schools and what it means to play for them...Same with all the Florida schools, TX schools, GA schools etc...

I know we don't have the in state talent in TN that some of the other states do, and i know we do relatively well in some of those other states, but usually you get that kid and he grew up a UGA fan or whatever...

I don't know, probably way off base here...but when you get a kid from NJ, OH, CA, whatever...do they really know when they get here what it means to play for UT?* do they know the history?*

Oh well, just wondering if anyone ever thought of that at all...

[snapback]200441[/snapback]

I think u are exactly right, I see it hard for these west coast kids to come in here and give it there all for the orange and white. This is probably one of many problems we got right now, we need some homegrown kids with some heart.

rockydoc · 11-23-2005, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAWGNATION@Nov 23, 2005 4:18 PM
[b]Is there any known reason why Tenn. high school football produces less talent? Lets face it. There is only 1 college in Tn that kids dream of playing for. (no its not Vandy).* Tenn has several large cities (Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville, Chatt.) and is a good size population. I live in South Carolina and we do not have the population but it seems Clemson, and South Carolina have a fair share of home grown talent. Ask UT how they stacked up recently the last time they played these schools.* Is it just a lack of finances to get quality high school coaches? Or is there a system failure in the High SChool league?* Or has girls basketball replaced football all together?

[snapback]200595[/snapback]

I think Tennessee actually produces more talent than it is given credit for and UT recruiting nationally misses some in state talent such as Patrick Willis at Ole Miss and the Vandy WR.

Also, the demographics are not favorable as the state is long and narrow with UT being in East Tennessee. Plus the fact that
(and I don"t want this to sound racial) Tennessee doesn't have as large of a population of blacks as most other southern states except in the Memphis area. There we have to compete with four other SEC schools that are closer geographally to Memphis plus the University of Memphis.

I agree with the original poster that it is the best to have more native state players and withe the population growing in the state especially in the Nashville area this will become a reality.

Jasongivm6 · 11-23-2005, 11:03 PM

The reason our in-state talent is sub-par is because we "get our corn from a jar." Dirt's too rocky by far, so instead of producing real "cornbred" kids who are strong, we produce weaker and smaller kids.

DAWGNATION · 11-24-2005, 06:13 PM

General Jack · 11-24-2005, 06:45 PM

I've wondered and worried about the same thing, whether we're too "national" and don't get enough kids that would sell their soul for the orange and white...

Not sure I have an opinion one way or the other. Some of our great mid to late 90s teams had just as many kids from out of state. Shoot, Peyton was from out of state and he's one of the greatest VOLS of all time. Shuler, Pickens, Dale Carter, Alvin Harper, Travis Henry... list is very long of dedicated and/or outstanding VOL contributers not from Tennessee.

I think the difference recently is that we haven't had any great leaders on the squad - the Al Wilson types. Players who demand the 110% out of the team. It really hurts when we don't have that, because the coaches don't demand 110%.

However, I would love to get 80% of all in-state bluechip talent. We need it, and given our tradition and fan base, deserve it as we are the premier football school in the state.