Ultimate ESPN 300 recruits of last decade

#1

VOLywood

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#1
Not sure if this is an existing list that gets updated annually or something completely new...I just know I haven't seen it before.

1 - Jadeveon Clowney
2 - Tim Tebow
3 - Eric Berry
4 - Patrick Peterson
5 - A.J. Green

Other Vols on the list:

153 - A.J. Johnson
230 - Derek Barnett
263 - Justin Hunter

LINK - ESPN Ultimate 300

From article:

For the Ultimate ESPN 300 ranking, we incorporated both the prospect's grade and projection out of high school with his actual college impact and production. In the interest of objectivity, we also included prospects that were not included in our rankings. However, we did not include players we did not evaluate in high school, so there are notable names left off this list, such as Michael Crabtree.

It should be noted that we did not include the 2015 class in this edition, and for the 2014 class, we incorporated freshman prospects that we felt had significant roles and their placement was based on forecasting similar production over the next three years. All prospects are listed at the position they were projected to play at out of high school and the original school they signed with.


Worth a discussion?
 
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#2
#2
Not sure if this is an existing list that gets updated annually or something completely new...I just know I haven't seen it before.

1 - Jadeveon Clowney
2 - Tim Tebow
3 - Eric Berry
4 - Patrick Peterson
5 - A.J. Green

Other Vols on the list:

153 - A.J. Johnson
230 - Derek Barnett
263 - Justin Hunter

LINK - ESPN Ultimate 300

From article:




Worth a discussion?

I don't think Clowney is worthy of number 1.
 
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#3
#3
Blasphemy....Berry is no.1 hands down. And as far as clowny, he was the no.1 recruit that year but wasn't the greatest players over the course of his career. He had a good freshman year but kinda hit cruise control after that. I'd take barrette all day over him. Barnett has that crazy mean competitive spirit like I have rarely witnessed
 
#4
#4
Blasphemy....Berry is no.1 hands down. And as far as clowny, he was the no.1 recruit that year but wasn't the greatest players over the course of his career. He had a good freshman year but kinda hit cruise control after that. I'd take barrette all day over him. Barnett has that crazy mean competitive spirit like I have rarely witnessed

EB is no doubt a top 5 but "#1 hands down" is a little extreme, imo.
 
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#6
#6
Blasphemy....Berry is no.1 hands down. And as far as clowny, he was the no.1 recruit that year but wasn't the greatest players over the course of his career. He had a good freshman year but kinda hit cruise control after that. I'd take barrette all day over him. Barnett has that crazy mean competitive spirit like I have rarely witnessed

It's a ranking of best person they ever ranked in that spot. SO of all the players they had rated #1 overall, clowney was the best. Of all the players they had ranked #2 over all, Tebow was thebest, etc, etc. It's not a raw score.
 
#7
#7
D'oh. no it's not. my bad on that, I saw a similar breakdown. I definitely disagree with some of them then.
 
#8
#8
kinda funny that Myles Garrett was a top #25 player after only 1 season,ahead of Johnny Manziel... very strange list they compiled... anyone who thinks he had a bigger impact at TAMU than Manziel needs their head examined and should cease making lists...

especially when they have a list of "super sophomores or Soph slump?" and Barnett is listed under Super and Garrett is listed under slump because 9 of his sacks came vs low level competition and no impact vs SEC teams,while Barnett was the exact opposite...
 
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#9
#9
kinda funny that Myles Garrett was a top #25 player after only 1 season,ahead of Johnny Manziel... very strange list they compiled... anyone who thinks he had a bigger impact at TAMU than Manziel needs their head examined and should cease making lists...

Well, no. It makes perfect sense if you read the description. Manziel was not a highly touted prospect. Rivals, for example, had him as a 5.7 3 star. These rankings are a combination of productivity and original ranking. So, a top 10 prospect who had top 50 productivity will be ranked more highly than a top 500 prospect who had top 5 productivity.

We may disagree with the methodology, but given the original assumptions the rankings make sense.
 
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#10
#10
I understand the premise,but Myles Garrett is the #22 player in the last 10 years? I understand the Clowney ranking,#1 out of high school,#1 draft pick overall... but Garrett makes no sense,after 1 year of college football... and there are other players that were ranked highly,maybe not as high as Garrett,but top 75, who had a greater impact in 1 season than Garrett...

i guess what im saying is: stupid list is stupid...
 
#12
#12
It's a ranking of best person they ever ranked in that spot. SO of all the players they had rated #1 overall, clowney was the best. Of all the players they had ranked #2 over all, Tebow was thebest, etc, etc. It's not a raw score.

You sure?
 
#13
#13
Well, no. It makes perfect sense if you read the description. Manziel was not a highly touted prospect. Rivals, for example, had him as a 5.7 3 star. These rankings are a combination of productivity and original ranking. So, a top 10 prospect who had top 50 productivity will be ranked more highly than a top 500 prospect who had top 5 productivity.

We may disagree with the methodology, but given the original assumptions the rankings make sense.

No, that's not how it works. They specifically use objectivity, so ranking Garrett above Manziel means they believe Garrett will be a better college football player. Original ranking has very little to do with this list. The only players it affects being ranked are completely unscouted/unranked guys.
 
#14
#14
It's a ranking of best person they ever ranked in that spot. SO of all the players they had rated #1 overall, clowney was the best. Of all the players they had ranked #2 over all, Tebow was thebest, etc, etc. It's not a raw score.

No, thus the "class rank" column. Tebow was #15 in 2006.

It is a list of who they believe were/are the best college players based on production AND potential. That's why Garrett and Barnett are on it. Since they had similar production, clearly these guys think Garrett has far superior potential moving forward. That is the only shocking disparity I see on the list. I agree with the majority of it. Clowney is widely considered the best high school prospect of the last 10-15 years. He will be a Hall of Fame NFL player pending injuries. Slacking during his junior year doesn't take away from the production he had and the unrivaled potential he's shown when his motor is going full speed.
 
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#15
#15
and they are "forecasting" similar results over the next 3 years for the 2014 guys...
which means Garrett will finish his 4 year career with 50 sacks or so,but only 9 against SEC teams,and 41 against El Paso,Stephen F Austin,etc... not exactly top #25 material IMO... Especially compared to Barnett and Nick Chubb...
 
#16
#16
No, that's not how it works. They specifically use objectivity, so ranking Garrett above Manziel means they believe Garrett will be a better college football player. Original ranking has very little to do with this list. The only players it affects being ranked are completely unscouted/unranked guys.

For the Ultimate ESPN 300 ranking, we incorporated both the prospect's grade and projection out of high school with his actual college impact and production.

Do you even read, bro?
 
#17
#17
and they are "forecasting" similar results over the next 3 years for the 2014 guys...
which means Garrett will finish his 4 year career with 50 sacks or so,but only 9 against SEC teams,and 41 against El Paso,Stephen F Austin,etc... not exactly top #25 material IMO... Especially compared to Barnett and Nick Chubb...

Exactly
 
#18
#18
Do you even read, bro?

Yes I did. I like your selective reasoning though. Did you read the entire thing, or just that part? Bro?

Prospect's original ranking is USED and displayed, but the rankings themselves are based on production and potential. That's where "objectivity" comes in... or a relative disregard for previous ranking (unranked players like Manziel). I can say "objectivity" a fourth time if needed. Hopefully you can access Google from the trailer park WiFi to look that word up.
 
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#19
#19
Yes I did. I like your selective reasoning though. Did you read the entire thing, or just that part? Bro?

Prospect's original ranking is USED and displayed, but the rankings themselves are based on production and potential. That's where "objectivity" comes in... or a relative disregard for previous ranking (unranked players like Manziel). I can say "objectivity" a fourth time if needed. Hopefully you can access Google from the trailer park WiFi to look that word up.

You're joking right? Surely you aren't being even remotely serious. It says that the RANKING is based on production AND original ranking. The OBJECTIVITY stuff (for a word you have a precarious grasp on, you sure do love to repeat it ad nauseam) is a separate clause, stating that the original ranking is not a requirement for admission into the list, but that they also included prospects who had not been ranked at all. This is saying that even though previous ranking is a component part in the new ranking, it is not a necessary condition for inclusion, since many unranked players clearly deserved to be included.

The prior ranking is USED in the sense that it is incorporated into the new ranking as a component part in the new evaluation of the player,

It becomes abundantly clear that this is what they mean when they continue on to say that players that they never evaluated are not eligible for inclusion. This would not be a relevant criterion were previous rankings not a major part of the list. If the list went solely on success in college, whether or not they scouted somebody would be irrelevant.

This is a way of marketing themselves, too. By weighting the rankings with their original ranking of the player, they end up making the list more closely approximate their original evaluations, thus making them look more prescient than they really were.

Moreover, they are saying objective here to show that they are not being biased - they are allowing for the fact that their original rankings were at times mistaken, and that unranked players could be good enough to make the list, and to end up high on the list. If the list were solely made up of previous ESPN 300 recruits, it would be skewed too dramatically towards their original interpretation, restricting the relevant sample unduly, and making themselves look much better at evaluating talent than they actually are.

Thanks for playing.
 
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#20
#20
What intelligent, observant person would put Garrett at 25 and Barnett 205 spots lower? That is either subjective stupidity or objective laziness.
 
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#21
#21
What intelligent, observant person would put Garrett at 25 and Barnett 125 spots lower? That is subjective stupidity or objective laziness.

I think that this is bogus too. People who don't pay attention, and just look at sacks (and not even where/when they occurred) can think that Garrett had a better year. Then they see his higher original ranking, and assume he must actually be a more talented player.

Wait until after this year. Nobody outside of College Station will look back on this and agree.
 
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#24
#24
If you consider that Eric Berry has absolutely no pass receptions against him his Senior year?!?!?!

He is "Hands down #1".


Wait; hold that thought while I check some additional STATS....
 
#25
#25
Tebow shouldn't even be ranked top 50. He was the ultimate ,system, and better players around him, making him look better than he is ,player. Harvin, Hernandez, and Murphy consistently made NFL catches on bad passes. The others were wide open due to great play calling. Tebow is the most overrated college player of all time.
 
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