Recruiting - Often An Exercise in Futility

[Tux]

Some fans have been crucifying Dooley over the Jacob JUCOs telling the coaches that they were going to sign with the Vols and then signing elsewhere. It happens. Some believe that the sky is falling it and are in full mental melt down. They blame Derek Dooley.

Remember that Dooley and his staff have already turned two big time recruits away from commitments to other schools this year, Justin Meredith and Dalton Santos. So the give and take of recruiting goes both ways. Recruiting is often a "take no prisoners" kind of exercise in futility.

We will keep many more players than we will ever lose. In fact, that is Dooley's reputation as a recruiter. He does not lose the high school kids, who are kept well grounded and truthful by their parents and high school coaches. It is the JUCO players, away from their homes, their parents, their trusted support groups and anchors, who are not being honest with the coaches of not just UT, but other schools as well.

[nicksjuzunk]

The sting of these is the fact that we really needed developed players to plug into the D-line. We were led to believe that we had them, giving some optimism after a dismal season, and then within a matter of days, it looks like we are screwed again.

I don't blame Dooley. Obviously he had them ALMOST sold... but dang, we gotta get over that hill, and if winning doesn't come first, getting players like these must come first.

Oh well, let's see what treats NSD has in store. Hopefully recruiting attrition is done.

[thomaseusin]

We will get a full class, and we'll get guys filling needs and guys who want to be here.

I believe.

Originally Posted by Tux

Remember that Dooley and his staff have already turned two big time recruits away from commitments to other schools this year, Justin Meredith and Dalton Santos.

Only remember 1 - Cross when coach Jay Graham was hired and he needed to be reevaluated. Who was the other?

[jessee james]

Hopefully attrition is done! Might be the main reason I say keep DD for a couple years longer kids can't take any more coaching turn over and fans also need some stability. He's getting players and Graham will light the fire. If only we had a OC with orange blood? Our new guys are stepping up and where else can you play against the best every week. I would think NFL scouts want film against Ala. & LSU not backing up on those teams.

[sdowell]

it all comes down to feb 1 2012. that's all that matters.

[BruinVol]

Not sure this belongs here but I didn't think it deserved a new thread.
How many schools do you guys think when they flip a committed recruit they instruct that kid to remain committed to the original school until signing day?

I hate to say this but if I was the HC I would instruct kids to do just that. The new 25 limit rule is going to make surprises hurt much worse than usual on NSD IMO. I hope we got ours out of the way today as they aren't nearly as bad today as they could be in February.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

[rickyyrs]

Originally Posted by jessee james

Hopefully attrition is done! Might be the main reason I say keep DD for a couple years longer kids can't take any more coaching turn over and fans also need some stability. He's getting players and Graham will light the fire. If only we had a OC with orange blood? Our new guys are stepping up and where else can you play against the best every week. I would think NFL scouts want film against Ala. & LSU not backing up on those teams.

Your right. We do not need any head coach changes.

[Tux]

Originally Posted by BruinVol

Not sure this belongs here but I didn't think it deserved a new thread.

Posted via VolNation Mobile

This thread is the only one that was not started to stir the pot and point out the reality of the situation. Sorry if that is too much for you to handle or goes against your agenda. We have way too many fans who seem to pulling for Bama and Florida at every turn.

I wanted to ensure that the reality of this situation was seen in full light and not under any false pretenses backed by an agenda.

Here is something my friend Warner Agee had to say about recruiting. I can attest that as a former recruit, a former host of recruits, and the brother of two payers who were recruited nationally, are pretty darn accurate about the recruiting process:

Recruiting 1101

After following recruiting very closely for over 25 years, I continue to still be amazed at the knee jerk reaction by some who, apparently, have no clue about the give and take, ebb and flow. A school such as Tennessee does not enjoy the bonanza that is a home state loaded with D1 prospects. So the farther the Vols have to go, the more it is simply a roll of the dice at times. Here's a few things I have learned:

1. Players are not yours until they sign on the dotted line.

2. Players will intetionally lie to coaches and particularly to those from pay websites who pester the living ****zz out of them on a daily basis. They will tell these guys what they think the caller wants to hear in order to just get off the damned phone.

3. Junior college players lie more than high school kids do, simply because the high school guys still have a parent or parents and a high school coach steering them along.

4. Opposing coaches will use every means available, fair and unfair, to turn a kid away from a school. The latest case in point is the Damien Seed. That makes two DTs in the last three years who were committed to UT that suddenly switched to Florida at the last minute. The first one, Edwin Herbert, was a can't miss, five star that lied to Boy Kiffin and Special Ed. He never saw the field in Gainesville. Ole Damien could very well suffer the same fate.

5. You may find this hard to believe, but some schools are providing money, vehicles and other extra benefits to recruits.

6. Phil will remember this guy, one Kim Lawhorn, Trenton Peabody High School. In the early 1990s, he was an athletic, 6-5, 265 pound lineman that the Vols wanted very badly. I was standing within eight feet of him and heard him verbally commit to John Chavis over the telephone. Then enter an advisor, a man who had lived in Trenton but had moved to California. The man helped turn this recruit to UCLA. The Bruins staff promised him he could play tight end, the Vols wanted him as an offensive tackle. He never played tight end for the Bruins and finished his career as a reserve offensive guard. So, advisors sometimes have enormous influence over players.

7. Coach Dooley and his staff have already turned two big time recruits away from commitments to other schools this year, Justin Meredith and Dalton Santos. So the give and take of recruiting goes both ways. Recruiting is a "take no prisoners" kind of exercise, sometimes in futility.

8. The defections today simply mean to me that the staff has an opportunity to go get a couple of better long term prospects out of the high school ranks. And there's still the big nose tackle and the wide receiver from the juco ranks who aren't early enrollees that the Vols might land.

9. This staff is working in the right states, Georgia and Florida. Perhaps Jay Graham will help re-establish a foothold in the Carolinas now. But in the final analysis, you win some and lose some and that is just the nature of the game called recruiting.

[BruinVol]

Originally Posted by Tux

This thread is the only one that was not started to stir the pot and point out the reality of the situation. Sorry if that is too much for you to handle or goes against your agenda. We have way too many fans who seem to pulling for Bama and Florida at every turn.

I wanted to ensure that the reality of this situation was seen in full light and not under any false pretenses backed by an agenda.

Here is something my friend Warner Agee had to say about recruiting. I can attest that as a former recruit, a former host of recruits, and the brother of two payers who were recruited nationally, are pretty darn accurate about the recruiting process:

I wasn't taking any shot at what had been said in the thread just asking a question that I didn't want to start a new thread to ask. I thought it was similar in nature to this thread.

Do you guys think that today will in any way change the "go ahead and take visits" mentality once a recruit commits? I don't think we should change anything for the HS guys but I might consider cutting the juco kids out of visits in the future once that commit especially with what was said before about juco kids being the toughest to count on.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

[radford]

Originally Posted by Tux

After following recruiting very closely for over 25 years, I continue to still be amazed at the knee jerk reaction by some who, apparently, have no clue about the give and take, ebb and flow. A school such as Tennessee does not enjoy the bonanza that is a home state loaded with D1 prospects. So the farther the Vols have to go, the more it is simply a roll of the dice at times. Here's a few things I have learned:

1. Players are not yours until they sign on the dotted line.

2. Players will intetionally lie to coaches and particularly to those from pay websites who pester the living ****zz out of them on a daily basis. They will tell these guys what they think the caller wants to hear in order to just get off the damned phone.

3. Junior college players lie more than high school kids do, simply because the high school guys still have a parent or parents and a high school coach steering them along.

4. Opposing coaches will use every means available, fair and unfair, to turn a kid away from a school. The latest case in point is the Damien Seed. That makes two DTs in the last three years who were committed to UT that suddenly switched to Florida at the last minute. The first one, Edwin Herbert, was a can't miss, five star that lied to Boy Kiffin and Special Ed. He never saw the field in Gainesville. Ole Damien could very well suffer the same fate.

5. You may find this hard to believe, but some schools are providing money, vehicles and other extra benefits to recruits.

6. Phil will remember this guy, one Kim Lawhorn, Trenton Peabody High School. In the early 1990s, he was an athletic, 6-5, 265 pound lineman that the Vols wanted very badly. I was standing within eight feet of him and heard him verbally commit to John Chavis over the telephone. Then enter an advisor, a man who had lived in Trenton but had moved to California. The man helped turn this recruit to UCLA. The Bruins staff promised him he could play tight end, the Vols wanted him as an offensive tackle. He never played tight end for the Bruins and finished his career as a reserve offensive guard. So, advisors sometimes have enormous influence over players.

7. Coach Dooley and his staff have already turned two big time recruits away from commitments to other schools this year, Justin Meredith and Dalton Santos. So the give and take of recruiting goes both ways. Recruiting is a "take no prisoners" kind of exercise, sometimes in futility.

8. The defections today simply mean to me that the staff has an opportunity to go get a couple of better long term prospects out of the high school ranks. And there's still the big nose tackle and the wide receiver from the juco ranks who aren't early enrollees that the Vols might land.

9. This staff is working in the right states, Georgia and Florida. Perhaps Jay Graham will help re-establish a foothold in the Carolinas now. But in the final analysis, you win some and lose some and that is just the nature of the game called recruiting.

Great post. I wish everyone thought like this and didn't panic at every lost recruit. We're recruiting dozens of players right now so we have our bases covered no matter who may decommit

[Vols4us]

Great post, Tux. That is the real world stuff there.

Go get the best talent you can by all the legal means you can and then develop them - coach 'em up.The later is where the question is with CDD/staff. We are getting plenty of the good talent. Don't know about their passion for winning.

[volinexile17]

Originally Posted by Tux

This thread is the only one that was not started to stir the pot and point out the reality of the situation. Sorry if that is too much for you to handle or goes against your agenda. We have way too many fans who seem to pulling for Bama and Florida at every turn.

I wanted to ensure that the reality of this situation was seen in full light and not under any false pretenses backed by an agenda.

Here is something my friend Warner Agee had to say about recruiting. I can attest that as a former recruit, a former host of recruits, and the brother of two payers who were recruited nationally, are pretty darn accurate about the recruiting process:

I think the words melodramatic and self-important apply.

[DaddyChad]

Originally Posted by Tux

Some fans have been crucifying Dooley over the Jacob JUCOs telling the coaches that they were going to sign with the Vols and then signing elsewhere. It happens. Some believe that the sky is falling it and are in full mental melt down. They blame Derek Dooley.

Remember that Dooley and his staff have already turned two big time recruits away from commitments to other schools this year, Justin Meredith and Dalton Santos. So the give and take of recruiting goes both ways. Recruiting is often a "take no prisoners" kind of exercise in futility.

We will keep many more players than we will ever lose. In fact, that is Dooley's reputation as a recruiter. He does not lose the high school kids, who are kept well grounded and truthful by their parents and high school coaches. It is the JUCO players, away from their homes, their parents, their trusted support groups and anchors, who are not being honest with the coaches of not just UT, but other schools as well.

I hope you don't have to eat those words.