Butch Jones Not a Home Run, But Not a Bust According to Athlon

#4
#4
I'm not sure how a hire can not be a "homerun" and not be a bust either. The gray area in the middle may be worse than a bust.... a coach not good enough to win big but difficult to justify getting rid of.
 
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#5
#5
sorry, but, nothing's better than Game of Thrones...:)

ps. exception...Volunteers playing football...:salute:

GO VOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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#6
#6
I'll admit that I've been critical of Butch too but he's probably what we most needed at the time which was improvement and stability.

And to be fair, he's never really had experience in the past, even as an assistant, in a major program. I'm hoping that he's learned how things work and how to manage expectations which should mean that he's ready to take that next step.
 
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#7
#7
Is Jones going to be like Mark Richt. Just good enough to win 8-10 games per year but never good enough to win a championship? I say no and here is why: Phil Fulmer won a championship and then lost some good coaches from his staff and would not get rid of long term coaches that were no longer performing. This cost him his job eventually. Jones on the other hand has dismissed coaches that have been with him a long time for coaches that were (are) considered upgrades. Jones willingness to make changes in the coaching staff and this off-season's change to let his assistant coaches do more has me thinking Jones is going to get it done eventually. We are all waiting for Jones to get better as a game-day coach and I hope that starts this year. His offseason coaching changes has allowed him to focus more on making himself better and less on the details that his assistant coaches are attending to.

Just my $.02 and worth every penny.
 
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#8
#8
VolBricks said:
Is Jones going to be like Mark Richt. Just good enough to win 8-10 games per year but never good enough to win a championship? I say no and here is why: Phil Fulmer won a championship and then lost some good coaches from his staff and would not get rid of long term coaches that were no longer performing. This cost him his job eventually. Jones on the other hand has dismissed coaches that have been with him a long time for coaches that were (are) considered upgrades. Jones willingness to make changes in the coaching staff and this off-season's change to let his assistant coaches do more has me thinking Jones is going to get it done eventually. We are all waiting for Jones to get better as a game-day coach and I hope that starts this year. His offseason coaching changes has allowed him to focus more on making himself better and less on the details that his assistant coaches are attending to.

Just my $.02 and worth every penny.
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Right now Butch Jones isn't anywhere close to Mark Richt as a coach.
 
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#9
#9
“The 2016 Vols were erratic, combustible, and resilient — often on the same afternoon — a combination that tempered disappointment with sheer exhaustion. The result was a missed opportunity in a watered-down division, but also a reminder of how far the Vols have come on Jones’ watch.”

This is fair & accurate.
 
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#11
#11
Jones has not been a home run. Jones has not been a complete bust. I think everyone with a rational mind would agree with those two statements. Nothing to see here
 
#12
#12
VolBricks said:
Is Jones going to be like Mark Richt. Just good enough to win 8-10 games per year but never good enough to win a championship? I say no and here is why: Phil Fulmer won a championship and then lost some good coaches from his staff and would not get rid of long term coaches that were no longer performing. This cost him his job eventually. Jones on the other hand has dismissed coaches that have been with him a long time for coaches that were (are) considered upgrades. Jones willingness to make changes in the coaching staff and this off-season's change to let his assistant coaches do more has me thinking Jones is going to get it done eventually. We are all waiting for Jones to get better as a game-day coach and I hope that starts this year. His offseason coaching changes has allowed him to focus more on making himself better and less on the details that his assistant coaches are attending to.

Just my $.02 and worth every penny.
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This is the source of most of my optimism.
 
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#13
#13
VolBricks said:
Is Jones going to be like Mark Richt. Just good enough to win 8-10 games per year but never good enough to win a championship? I say no and here is why: Phil Fulmer won a championship and then lost some good coaches from his staff and would not get rid of long term coaches that were no longer performing. This cost him his job eventually. Jones on the other hand has dismissed coaches that have been with him a long time for coaches that were (are) considered upgrades. Jones willingness to make changes in the coaching staff and this off-season's change to let his assistant coaches do more has me thinking Jones is going to get it done eventually. We are all waiting for Jones to get better as a game-day coach and I hope that starts this year. His offseason coaching changes has allowed him to focus more on making himself better and less on the details that his assistant coaches are attending to.

Just my $.02 and worth every penny.
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Lots of coaches were hired and fired at UGA before they finally realized it wasn't the assistants. One at least one occasion, they fired the whole staff but kept Richt. Great recruiter. Good face for the school. Just couldn't win with championships on the line. Sound familiar at all?

Oh... Richt fired two of the guys Jones included in his original "best staff in America".... He's also had to let them go. They never should have been on the staff to start with... nor should Lawson or Bajakian or Azzani. They're not the kinds of coaches that win in the SEC. At least not at this stage of their careers.
 
#14
#14
PS- I have praised him for being willing to cut guys who have been with him a long time and that he counts as friends. But the Richt analogy wasn't a good one considering it was probably Richt all along.
 
#15
#15
sjt18 said:
I'm not sure how a hire can not be a "homerun" and not be a bust either. The gray area in the middle may be worse than a bust.... a coach not good enough to win big but difficult to justify getting rid of.
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It means this is the norm for UT minus the 90s
 
#17
#17
Jones has steadily improved the program, IMO. He's proven he can recruit, he's upgraded the staff, he's made us more competitive. All good. To me he's a very good fit with this program, but of course in the end it's all about the winning.

Fulmer's success in his first 10 years will be hard to match because the conference is far more competitive now than it was then. Bama was down and then on probation; nobody in the west was any good. Florida and us were the two big dogs for several years, and Fulmer had an unprecedented recruiting run, really, until he and the program got stale.
 
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#18
#18
armchair said:
Jones has steadily improved the program, IMO. He's proven he can recruit, he's upgraded the staff, he's made us more competitive. All good. To me he's a very good fit with this program, but of course in the end it's all about the winning.

Fulmer's success in his first 10 years will be hard to match because the conference is far more competitive now than it was then. Bama was down and then on probation; nobody in the west was any good. Florida and us were the two big dogs for several years, and Fulmer had an unprecedented recruiting run, really, until he and the program got stale.
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Last paragraph is just not true. Other than Bama, the SEC is in terrible shape right now. There are better coaches top to bottom in the ACC and arguably the Big 10. The East is particularly bad, and yet with it laid in front of him last year on a silver platter, he choked it away. That's my concern.
 
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#19
#19
sjt18 said:
Lots of coaches were hired and fired at UGA before they finally realized it wasn't the assistants. One at least one occasion, they fired the whole staff but kept Richt. Great recruiter. Good face for the school. Just couldn't win with championships on the line. Sound familiar at all?

Oh... Richt fired two of the guys Jones included in his original "best staff in America".... He's also had to let them go. They never should have been on the staff to start with... nor should Lawson or Bajakian or Azzani. They're not the kinds of coaches that win in the SEC. At least not at this stage of their careers.
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My point exactly. Jones is making changes (for the better we hope).
 
#20
#20
sjt18 said:
I'm not sure how a hire can not be a "homerun" and not be a bust either. The gray area in the middle may be worse than a bust.... a coach not good enough to win big but difficult to justify getting rid of.
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This is a hard but true statement.
 
#22
#22
Behr said:
This is the source of most of my optimism.
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I guess we look at it different ways. I want to know why it took four seasons and a lot hot seat chatter to get some changes made. I am also not convinced that the people we have are all that great. Most of them were available for a reason. As for recruiting, once the big boys start accepting commitments, we're probably going to fall off the edge of the top 10 in the rankings unless the staff reels in another 5* or two and/or a couple of our current 4* get upgraded. It still a better class than he signed this year and comparable to what he signed in 2016 but currently is not as good as Butch's 2014 and 2015 classes that were reeled in largely on the promise of early playing time and Butch being an unknown commodity in the SEC.
 
#25
#25
sjt18 said:
Lots of coaches were hired and fired at UGA before they finally realized it wasn't the assistants. One at least one occasion, they fired the whole staff but kept Richt. Great recruiter. Good face for the school. Just couldn't win with championships on the line. Sound familiar at all?

Oh... Richt fired two of the guys Jones included in his original "best staff in America".... He's also had to let them go. They never should have been on the staff to start with... nor should Lawson or Bajakian or Azzani. They're not the kinds of coaches that win in the SEC. At least not at this stage of their careers.
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Bajakian was a good coach who didn't have much to work with. He wasn't an ace recruiter or anything, but neither was Debord. His biggest problem as a CFB coach was that he wasn't motivated to commit to the 24/7/365 grind of recruiting and coaching (which is why he jumped to the NFL).


If he'd have stuck around through 2016, we'd probably have seen much more consistent QB play the past two seasons. He did a lot of really good work with Worley in his two years here.
 
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