What if Butch Jones' recruiting classes....

[madbamahater]

Performed as highly as they've been ranked in recruiting like the competition has?

 

[Boca Vol]

Performed as highly as they've been ranked in recruiting like the competition has?

One of the problems is UT usually plays a few teams ranked above them. While UT's recruiting has been good, look at where it ranks in the SEC.

 

[EZE]

Performed as highly as they've been ranked in recruiting like the competition has?

Can you provide proof that the competition has performed as "highly as they've been ranked" in recruiting? And don't merely cherry pick Alabama and provide one example.

If real facts are presented, I think we will find that the Top 10 in recruiting is not exactly the same as the Final Top 10. As somebody else posted above, strength of schedule plays heavily into it.

 

[1chattyvols1]

Here at UT, we don't play players according to talent. We play players according to seniority or if we are trying make a point! - per Butch Jones

So, unless recruits stay long term or a position comes open, this is an unfair question.

 

[jonnon111]

That's hilarious. Maybe the seniority you speak of is knowledge of the game and system along with strength and conditioning. Leadership developed through relayionships after a few tough battles together.

But I'm sure it's because Butch is trying to sabatoge the program. That makes way more sense.

I just am always baffled and how many people want kids to stick in school and play four years but then we say they don't deserve to play when they stay.

 

[madbamahater]

Can you provide proof that the competition has performed as "highly as they've been ranked" in recruiting? And don't merely cherry pick Alabama and provide one example.

If real facts are presented, I think we will find that the Top 10 in recruiting is not exactly the same as the Final Top 10. As somebody else posted above, strength of schedule plays heavily into it.

Typically, in America the one accusing the other of a wrong doing is the one who must provide proof. Can you provide proof? Why do you want me to do your home work?

 

[Roustabout]

Can you provide proof that the competition has performed as "highly as they've been ranked" in recruiting? And don't merely cherry pick Alabama and provide one example.

If real facts are presented, I think we will find that the Top 10 in recruiting is not exactly the same as the Final Top 10. As somebody else posted above, strength of schedule plays heavily into it.

I'd say UT has consistently out recruited Vandy.

 

[1chattyvols1]

That's hilarious. Maybe the seniority you speak of is knowledge of the game and system along with strength and conditioning. Leadership developed through relayionships after a few tough battles together.

But I'm sure it's because Butch is trying to sabatoge the program. That makes way more sense.

I just am always baffled and how many people want kids to stick in school and play four years but then we say they don't deserve to play when they stay.

Yeah I know right? Look at Kelly and Kamara as one example.

 

[chargervol]

Good grief.
Every year, a major school has a quarterback come in and out perform last year's quarterback. Guess what, unless the new quarterback is a freshman, he was sitting on the bench behind the other one last year.
You guys only notice this stuff here, I swear.

 

[volfannbama]

Performed as highly as they've been ranked in recruiting like the competition has?

Them they would be middle of the road SEC, about where they are.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

One of the problems is UT usually plays a few teams ranked above them. While UT's recruiting has been good, look at where it ranks in the SEC.

The guys on 104.5 The Zone in Nashville were talking about this today.

Listed all of Butch's recruiting classes to date, which we all remember as being good to very good (a couple in the top 5, not even counting this year's so far).

But then pointed out that, if you isolate the rankings IN THE SEC, it comes out like this: 10th, 2nd, 5th, 7th, and 6th. So average of the five years = 6th in the SEC.

Their point was, even though he's a very good recruiter, he's surrounded by--and COMPETING ON THE FIELD against--other programs that recruit very well, too.

Having the roughly 6th-best set of talent in the SEC would theoretically, all other things being equal, equate to ending up 6th best in the conference.

So maybe it's not so much that Butch & Co are "under-developing the talent they get," as some here have theorized. Maybe it's just that there's a lot of good talent on many of these teams we play.

That was 104.5's contribution to Vols football this afternoon.

Here at UT, we don't play players according to talent. We play players according to seniority or if we are trying make a point! - per Butch Jones

So, unless recruits stay long term or a position comes open, this is an unfair question.

If we played VolNation posters according to talent, you wouldn't have had a chance to post yet. Heh. Wow, look, you got me to smile again. That's twice in one day!

 

[jonnon111]

Yeah I know right? Look at Kelly and Kamara as one example.

I smell sarcasm. Just a thought experiment: Butch Jones benches Hurd BEFORE he quit on the team and says Kelley is a better fit and has shown tremendous prkgress in practice.
Result: Volnation melts down.

So there are anecdotes on both sides. It wasn't that long ago before a roster of Butchs recruits where we whined that all these freshmen are starting because we cant develop talent. Now we start seniors and upper classman and Butch is ignoring talent.

My long winded point: Butch has every reason to play the best players and NO reason not to.

 

[IndianapolisVol]

He's gotta put the right guys on the field before we can get into this question. Evan Berry has been nothing short of electric every time he touches the ball for 3 years now and rarely sees the field.

Butch thinks Colton Jumper is better than Bituli or Smith.

We started Worley in the read option over future NFL QB's better suited for the offense for 2 years in a row.

Just my opinion, I'm entitled to it.

 

[1chattyvols1]

I smell sarcasm. Just a thought experiment: Butch Jones benches Hurd BEFORE he quit on the team and says Kelley is a better fit and has shown tremendous prkgress in practice.
Result: Volnation melts down.

So there are anecdotes on both sides. It wasn't that long ago before a roster of Butchs recruits where we whined that all these freshmen are starting because we cant develop talent. Now we start seniors and upper classman and Butch is ignoring talent.

My long winded point: Butch has every reason to play the best players and NO reason not to.

Yeah, and Kelly and Kamara really showed why Hurd was starting and playing!

 

[KBVol]

Can you provide proof that the competition has performed as "highly as they've been ranked" in recruiting? And don't merely cherry pick Alabama and provide one example.

If real facts are presented, I think we will find that the Top 10 in recruiting is not exactly the same as the Final Top 10. As somebody else posted above, strength of schedule plays heavily into it.

1. Clemson- 2016 recruiting ranking #8
2. Alabama- #1
3. USC- #7
4. Washington- #37
5. Oklahoma-#22
6. Ohio State- #4
7. Penn State-#20
8. Florida State- #2
9. Wisconsin- #29
10. Michigan- #5

So, 6 out of the top final Top 10 teams in the country last year had a top 10 recruiting class in 2016. Looking at the teams, I'm certain if you looked back 2-3 years further, you'd find more of the same.

 

[madbamahater]

1. Clemson- 2016 recruiting ranking #8
2. Alabama- #1
3. USC- #7
4. Washington- #37
5. Oklahoma-#22
6. Ohio State- #4
7. Penn State-#20
8. Florida State- #2
9. Wisconsin- #29
10. Michigan- #5

So, 6 out of the top final Top 10 teams in the country last year had a top 10 recruiting class in 2016. Looking at the teams, I'm certain if you looked back 2-3 years further, you'd find more of the same.

In other words..................the majority.............

 

[volfannbama]

1. Clemson- 2016 recruiting ranking #8
2. Alabama- #1
3. USC- #7
4. Washington- #37
5. Oklahoma-#22
6. Ohio State- #4
7. Penn State-#20
8. Florida State- #2
9. Wisconsin- #29
10. Michigan- #5

So, 6 out of the top final Top 10 teams in the country last year had a top 10 recruiting class in 2016. Looking at the teams, I'm certain if you looked back 2-3 years further, you'd find more of the same.

Moral of the story: Coaching matters

 

[chargervol]

Moral of the story: Coaching matters

The guys question was "does factoring in strength of schedule play a part"
Obviously this list didn't cover anything about that.

We know Bama has a strong sos.

I believe Michigan played PSU and OSU, lost 1 of those. The rest of their schedule was teams that our fans complain about playing because they're "slow, middle-of-the-pack b1g teams".

So no clear answer using just those 2. Have to look up the rest.

Side question though: would our fans complain about playing those teams if we ended ranked 10th?

 

[1chattyvols1]

Moral of the story: Coaching matters

Not on Play Station.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

JMO but I think the likely reason we're having this discussion is because of the South Carolina and Vandy games last year. Last year on paper we had our best team in eons and in the eyes of most, underperformed expectations. There were other eye-opening moments which questioned whether or not we were up to the hype we'd received preseason, the early season struggles against inferior competition, the slow starts, etc., but the South Carolina and Vandy games were irrefutable evidence that we underperformed.

There were injuries and we didn't have the depth to offset the large number of hits to our 2-deep. Josh, by his own admission, was unprepared mentally and physically for the South Carolina game and Shoop said that by the time we got to the Vandy game, the team was, in his words, out of gas. I got the idea that he meant mentally fatigued.

I read articles last year and this year that said Butch had eased up on the veteran players on the team - so whether or not they participated in practice was sort of optional. We had no credible strength and conditioning program last year. I read on SEC Country that the offensive line reported to fall camp out of shape.

In a number of reports during the 2015 season, some probably NSFW, it was claimed that the team had won the game but the coaches gave the game away, (Oklahoma and Florida were the most notable). With all the CBJ condemnation he may have relaxed his standards for the team a bit. I think if 2016 offseason and preseason had been more like the same periods in 2014 and 2015 we likely would have lived up to our preseason billing. JMO.

Butch, before coming to Tennessee, I don't think ever had to deal with blue chip egos (high 4-stars and 5-stars). Maybe it's a stretch but maybe it's not. Larry Scott was at Miami and Brady Hoke was at Michigan. Shoop was at Penn State. Our new S&C coach comes from the NFL.

I read one gambling analyst last year who stated that we would underperform for the reason that the younger guys would not step up if the older guys went down. He claimed that Butch did not have buy-in from the younger guys. I dismissed it because in my view I couldn't see how that would work since Butch had recruited all of the younger guys. It easily could be argued that the analyst turned out to be correct.

We all make mistakes. I think in the aggregate Butch has done a good job. I also think he's made some mistakes. He may have had to take the least bad decision in some cases. I don't know the real circumstances. From what I can tell at this point he has tried to take concrete actions to reverse some of the issues we had last year. I'm not certain they will all pan out but I'm fairly optimistic that we will be a better football team this year than we were last year. While last year we underperformed the consensus expectations, I think we'll see the opposite this year - and most of the credit imo, if I am right, should go to CBJ.

I'm excited for the season to kick-off. I want to see if CBJ has advanced the product on the field for this year. I don't particularly like his personality but I think he's a smart guy and I have no doubt he works his tail off. I also thinks he wants to win as bad as I do. The difference is there's not really all that much I can do to affect the outcome of our games. I want him to succeed because If he succeeds I get my wins. I'm pulling for him and so should you - if you really want to win this year. jmo.

 

[OrangeByBirth]

I submit that the recruits have performed as they were recruited ... top quality athletes in high school. It's challenging to coach them into big time college football players when the coach is also learning big time college football.

 

[madbamahater]

I submit that the recruits have performed as they were recruited ... top quality athletes in high school. It's challenging to coach them into big time college football players when the coach is also learning big time college football.

Bingo

 

[Rudy123]

One of the problems is UT usually plays a few teams ranked above them. While UT's recruiting has been good, look at where it ranks in the SEC.

Let's imagine that we are # 5 in recruiting but the teams ahead of us are Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Texas, then 3 of our opponents are ahead of us in recruiting. Not good.

We have to out recruit other teams. We have to out perform other teams on the field and we have to out scheme other teams on the field. Then we can win.

 

[Boca Vol]

Let's imagine that we are # 5 in recruiting but the teams ahead of us are Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Texas, then 3 of our opponents are ahead of us in recruiting. Not good.

We have to out recruit other teams. We have to out perform other teams on the field and we have to out scheme other teams on the field. Then we can win.

That's the way it is and it's nothing new. You either accept that reality and do what you can do to compete with the other teams....or you become a perennial 6-6/ 8-4 team.

 

[Behr]

The guys question was "does factoring in strength of schedule play a part"
Obviously this list didn't cover anything about that.

We know Bama has a strong sos.

I believe Michigan played PSU and OSU, lost 1 of those. The rest of their schedule was teams that our fans complain about playing because they're "slow, middle-of-the-pack b1g teams".

So no clear answer using just those 2. Have to look up the rest.

Side question though: would our fans complain about playing those teams if we ended ranked 10th?

Moral of the story: I like turtles.