I have questions

#1
fade route

fade route

Just being honest
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
17,391
Likes
16,175
#1
Can someone with more football knowledge than me help with the following questions? Maybe some of you have had these questions before as well, and I welcome all feedback - especially snarky and sarcastic deprecating posts about me personally.

1. So many football games are won or lost on the kicker's ability to make a field goal. With that much riding on them, why are the really good ones not more highly rated by recruiting services coming out of high school? If a kid can kick it through the uprights from 50+ yards in high school, seems like he would be a 5*. Thoughts?

2. Why is it when the QB spikes the ball to stop the clock it's not intentional grounding? He's clearly not throwing to a receiver. I'm sure there's a answer in the rule book, just don't know what it is.

3. Finally, why is it that the holder on fake field goals is allowed to pick the ball off the ground to run or throw with it? The ball is on the ground, isn't it a dead ball anytime the ball is touching the ground?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#2
#2
fade route said:
Can someone with more football knowledge than me help with the following questions - maybe some of you have had these questions before as well and I welcome all feedback, especially snarky and sarcastic deprecating posts about me personally.

1. So many football games are won or lost on the kicker's ability to make a field goal. With that much riding on them, why are the really good ones not more highly rated by recruiting services coming out of high school? If a kid can kick it through the uprights from 50+ yards in high school, seems like he would be a 5*. Thoughts?

2. Why is it when the QB spikes the ball to stop the clock it's not intentional grounding? He's clearly not throwing to a receiver. I'm sure there's a answer in the rule book, just don't know what it is.

3. Finally, why is it that the holder on fake field goals is allowed to pick the ball off the ground to run or throw with it? The ball is on the ground, isn't it a dead ball anytime the ball is touching the ground?
Click to expand...

1. Hell, I don't know.

2. It's a designed play. Referees accept it. Intentional grounding is considered an attempt to avoid losing field position...judgement call.

3. It's always a live ball unless it's whistled dead or the player in possession has a knee on the ground.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#3
#3
I understand what you mean about the kicker. However there are not many measurables for a kicker and not a lot of game film to look at. Imo. While stars do not reflect in any particular position they do get National and state position rankings.

I'm guessing the fake field goal holder has an exception in the rulebook just like the kicker's foot can be past the line of scrimmage on a kickoff.
 
#4
#4
I'm pretty sure a ball isn't considered dead unless the knee is down. You see shotgun snaps hit the ground on occasion and the play isn't blown dead.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#5
#5
No expert here.

Don't know the answer to 1.

2. That's how it's written into the NCAA (and NFL) rule book. A spike (QB throwing the ball into the ground immediately after the snap as an intentional incomplete pass, trading a down for a clock stoppage) is simply an express exception to the more general rule of intentional grounding. Here's a wiki on it, though it doesn't have a link to the NCAA rule book either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_(gridiron_football)

3. Again, this is written into the rule book as an exception to the general rules about when a ball is dead by the player's body (knee) contacting the ground. In this case, the exception explicitly says the holder's knee can touch the ground and the ball can touch the ground, and it still be a live ball that can be advanced. Here's a Q&A page that does reference the NCAA rule involved: https://sports.stackexchange.com/qu...dead-on-a-fake-field-goal-in-college-football
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#6
#6
butchna said:
1. Hell, I don't know.

2. It's a designed play. Referees accept it. Intentional grounding is considered an attempt to avoid losing field position...judgement call.

3. It's always a live ball unless it's whistled dead or the player in possession has a knee on the ground.
Click to expand...

With respect to #3, holders typically have their knee on the ground when they get the snap, yet they're still allowed to get up and run/throw. Never understood that one. Guess it falls under your thought in point #2...refs just accept it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#7
#7
VonVol said:
I'm pretty sure a ball isn't considered dead unless the knee is down. You see shotgun snaps hit the ground on occasion and the play isn't blown dead.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the ball touching the ground only deadens the ball on a forward pass. In all other situations, the ball remains live. It's the possessor touching the ground with something other than his hands or feet (or calling for a fair catch, or running out of bounds or into an end zone) that deadens it.
 
#8
#8
VFL-82-JP said:
No expert here.

Don't know the answer to 1.

2. That's how it's written into the NCAA (and NFL) rule book. A spike (QB throwing the ball into the ground immediately after the snap as an intentional incomplete pass, trading a down for a clock stoppage) is simply an express exception to the more general rule of intentional grounding. Here's a wiki on it, though it doesn't have a link to the NCAA rule book either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_(gridiron_football)

3. Again, this is written into the rule book as an exception to the general rules about when a ball is dead by the player's body (knee) contacting the ground. In this case, the exception explicitly says the holder's knee can touch the ground and the ball can touch the ground, and it still be a live ball that can be advanced. Here's a Q&A page that does reference the NCAA rule involved: https://sports.stackexchange.com/qu...dead-on-a-fake-field-goal-in-college-football
Click to expand...

Guess I never noticed the holder kept the knee down when receiving the snap. Didn't know there was an exception for that. The more you know!
 
#9
#9
I think what he is saying is that a Kick Holder is already on his knee when catches the snap! Kick Holders don't hold standing up, so the ball should technically be down when holder catches it! Just saying. :blink:


.
 
#10
#10
I have a question... where the is the 2017 schedule??? I went to Schedule... and it shows 2011 games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#12
#12
VFL-82-JP said:
No expert here.

Don't know the answer to 1.

2. That's how it's written into the NCAA (and NFL) rule book. A spike (QB throwing the ball into the ground immediately after the snap as an intentional incomplete pass, trading a down for a clock stoppage) is simply an express exception to the more general rule of intentional grounding. Here's a wiki on it, though it doesn't have a link to the NCAA rule book either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_(gridiron_football)

3. Again, this is written into the rule book as an exception to the general rules about when a ball is dead by the player's body (knee) contacting the ground. In this case, the exception explicitly says the holder's knee can touch the ground and the ball can touch the ground, and it still be a live ball that can be advanced. Here's a Q&A page that does reference the NCAA rule involved: https://sports.stackexchange.com/qu...dead-on-a-fake-field-goal-in-college-football
Click to expand...

Would add to #2 that part of the intentional grounding call is that the QB was under duress and threw the ball solely to avoid a sack. You often see a QB throw a ball out of bounds or to where no receiver is because the receiver busted the route or QB misread. For there to be intentional grounding in addition to the QB being inside the tackle box, the ball not going past the line of scrimmage, and no receiver being in the area, in the judgment of the official making the call the QB threw the ball to avoid a sack.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#14
#14
Chilmonty said:
I think what he is saying is that a Kick Holder is already on his knee when catches the snap! Kick Holders don't hold standing up, so the ball should technically be down when holder catches it! Just saying. :blink:


.
Click to expand...


Yes, that's my point. His knee is on the ground holding the ball but yet he can ge up and run with it or throw it.
 
#15
#15
fade route said:
Can someone with more football knowledge than me help with the following questions? Maybe some of you have had these questions before as well, and I welcome all feedback - especially snarky and sarcastic deprecating posts about me personally.

1. So many football games are won or lost on the kicker's ability to make a field goal. With that much riding on them, why are the really good ones not more highly rated by recruiting services coming out of high school? If a kid can kick it through the uprights from 50+ yards in high school, seems like he would be a 5*. Thoughts?

2. Why is it when the QB spikes the ball to stop the clock it's not intentional grounding? He's clearly not throwing to a receiver. I'm sure there's a answer in the rule book, just don't know what it is.

3. Finally, why is it that the holder on fake field goals is allowed to pick the ball off the ground to run or throw with it? The ball is on the ground, isn't it a dead ball anytime the ball is touching the ground?
Click to expand...

Not quite snarky or sarcastic so don't be disappointed.

1. Some are 5* soccer recruits. I've seen 4* kickers listed but that seems to be the ceiling. Life's not fair.

2. As noted, it's just the rule.

3. Refer to 2.
 
#16
#16
Fade, all were good and well thought out questions and I have pondered over them as well. Be careful you might be changing your spots at least in the eyes of others. Is that snarky enough for you. JK.:thumbsup:
 
#17
#17
1974Vol said:
Would add to #2 that part of the intentional grounding call is that the QB was under duress and threw the ball solely to avoid a sack. You often see a QB throw a ball out of bounds or to where no receiver is because the receiver busted the route or QB misread. For there to be intentional grounding in addition to the QB being inside the tackle box, the ball not going past the line of scrimmage, and no receiver being in the area, in the judgment of the official making the call the QB threw the ball to avoid a sack.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he has to be under real or perceived threat of a sack, you're right.

That alone would seem to make the spike exception in the rule book unnecessary, though I'm pretty sure it's explicitly in there nonetheless.
 
#18
#18
fade route said:
Can someone with more football knowledge than me help with the following questions? Maybe some of you have had these questions before as well, and I welcome all feedback - especially snarky and sarcastic deprecating posts about me personally.

1. So many football games are won or lost on the kicker's ability to make a field goal. With that much riding on them, why are the really good ones not more highly rated by recruiting services coming out of high school? If a kid can kick it through the uprights from 50+ yards in high school, seems like he would be a 5*. Thoughts?

2. Why is it when the QB spikes the ball to stop the clock it's not intentional grounding? He's clearly not throwing to a receiver. I'm sure there's a answer in the rule book, just don't know what it is.

3. Finally, why is it that the holder on fake field goals is allowed to pick the ball off the ground to run or throw with it? The ball is on the ground, isn't it a dead ball anytime the ball is touching the ground?
Click to expand...

Dont know on the kicker.

Play is allowed by rule.

Ball on the ground is not dead. It would be more like a fumble. A running back can pick up a ball fumbled by the qb and run it or qb can pass it.
 
#19
#19
The name of this thread and the opening sentence of "Can someone with more football knowledge than me help with the following questions?" just reminded me of being at a frat party and hearing a girl say, "I'm sooooo druuuunnnkk!

Either scenario is sure to draw a crowd of the same type of guys.:yes:
 
#20
#20
VonVol said:
Guess I never noticed the holder kept the knee down when receiving the snap. Didn't know there was an exception for that. The more you know!
Click to expand...
I guess it is the Less Miles rule. Seems like he did that at least a few times when LSU beat Florida.
 
#22
#22
1725gatorhater said:
I guess it is the Less Miles rule. Seems like he did that at least a few times when LSU beat Florida.
Click to expand...

Heh, man, I think that exception has been in the rule book since before a young Lester Miles headed off to school for the first time. :)
 
#25
#25
Since no one wants to state the obvious answer for #1, I will. It's because espn hates kickers!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top