Are our D linemen undersized?

#1

swchandler1988

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#1
I don't know if this has been a concern to others, but looking at some of the guys on our defensive front it might be easy to say that we are "undersized". I've read some talk on here that a guy like Barnett is too light to be an elite NFL prospect (might as well put Vereen in that same conversation since he's 15lbs lighter). Our two deep in the DT position definitely isn't light, but looking at our back ups (guys like Butcher (270ish), Picou (277) and Phillips (260)), one could see this as a cause for concern.

I found an article online analyzing the average weight and height for an NFL defensive front and I was pretty surprised to find out that the average weight of a starting defensive line in a 4-3 in the pros (288lbs) is pretty much exactly what we have (287.75lbs). I'm honestly just trying to think of something to talk about since it seems like we're all just beating a dead horse waiting for Thursday, but here's the link if anyone's interested. Ranking NFL 4-3 Defensive Lines By Weight: Giants Are The Heaviest, Cowboys The Lightest - Blogging The Boys

Just a fun fact, our starting defensive line is comparable to the size of New England. Tampa Bay, Miami and Dallas' starting 4-3 line.
 
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#2
#2
Barnett is listed at a higher weight than Von Miller and they have comparable roles (different systems, but functionally the role is similar), so I wouldn't consider him to be undersized. I don't see anyone in the two deep who is undersized for our line.
 
#3
#3
Take a look at Shoop's superstar at Penn State. Players size fits systems. No different then OL, when Nebraska ran the wish bone they had 6'2-6'4 behemoths that bull dozed people, but these guys could hardly pass block. Athletes fit certain schemes, while monsters fit others.
 
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#4
#4
There's often a trade off between size and speed. As long as we are able to rotate guys it makes it hard on the opposing OL when they keep seeing fresh legs.

Our 2-deep is pretty solid. The guys beyond that won't see more than 10-15 snaps.
 
#5
#5
Saw the thread title and thought an Appy St fan had started his first thread. :) To answer the question? Nah! We're HUGE! They can't handle our muscle and girth and yes...twss. :shades:
 
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#6
#6
There's often a trade off between size and speed. As long as we are able to rotate guys it makes it hard on the opposing OL when they keep seeing fresh legs.

Our 2-deep is pretty solid. The guys beyond that won't see more than 10-15 snaps.

Agree-- the key here this season is our two-deep depth and the fact we will be able to constantly rotate guys and staying fresh and fast...
 
#7
#7
Take a look at Shoop's superstar at Penn State. Players size fits systems. No different then OL, when Nebraska ran the wish bone they had 6'2-6'4 behemoths that bull dozed people, but these guys could hardly pass block. Athletes fit certain schemes, while monsters fit others.

Shoop Doggy Dog got it figured out.
 
#8
#8
Barnett is listed at a higher weight than Von Miller and they have comparable roles (different systems, but functionally the role is similar), so I wouldn't consider him to be undersized. I don't see anyone in the two deep who is undersized for our line.

Barnett is not near as fast as Miller.
 
#9
#9
I thought the same thing, as long as we can plug the middle and make them go outside, then UT's speed takes over the game. We'll see pretty fast if Faster and Stronger beats girth.
 
#10
#10
Barnett is actually on the heavier side when it comes to 4-3 ends. He doesn't have elite Height and length is the usual draft criticism, but even then he is only a couple inches shy of prototypical size. (TWSS)

I do think we are slightly undersized on the interior but nothing all that substantial. Butch and Shoop have both said they like DT's to be mobile and make plays, not just eat up space.
 
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#11
#11
More in regards to a couple of them being smaller, I'd like to see how Picou and Butcher fare against maybe App State or Ohio to kind of test them out. I still have really high hopes for both of them.
 
#12
#12
Can't make this comparison IMO... What if you want 2 320 lb run stuffers in the middle and 2 260-270 lb speed rushers off the edge, when another DC wants lighter DT's and heavier DE's? And Barnett is not undersized for a DE
 
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#13
#13
Barnett is listed at a higher weight than Von Miller and they have comparable roles

Just no. Von Miller is also responsible for pass coverege in some sets. Barnett isnt nearly fast enough or athletic enough to cover WRs. Thats not a knock on him, hes just a pure pass rusher/run stopper. They are just 2 different players.
 
#15
#15
I get the Von Miller/ Barnett comparison since they're almost the exact same size and both are great at what they do, but Miller is listed as running a 4.49 40yd dash. That's just insane.
 
#17
#17
I'm thinking he meant Myles Garrett not Von Miller

If we were all sitting around a campfire sipping beers and talking about it, it might be excused.

But when you type it out in the privacy of your home or cubical, you are held to a standard of saying what you mean and meaning what you say. You can proofread, and open another tab to access sites to check the veracity of your claims before submitting, or quickly editing if there was an error. (I do that often)

Those of us who don't deserve the hay forks and flaming torches thrown our way.
 
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#18
#18
I think our size at DE is average or slightly above average when factoring in guys like Phillips, Kongbo, and Lewis.

At DT, 2/3 guys we'll see the most of for the early part of the season are undersized IMO. Getting back Tuttle and having Johnson ready for UF will be big for us.
 
#19
#19
I think our size at DE is average or slightly above average when factoring in guys like Phillips, Kongbo, and Lewis.

At DT, 2/3 guys we'll see the most of for the early part of the season are undersized IMO. Getting back Tuttle and having Johnson ready for UF will be big for us.

Size is definitely a factor at DE but I believe speed off the edge is what makes the difference. DT is where you need the "size"
 
#20
#20
Short answer? Yes. Our defensive line is undersized.

The only lineman we have with NFL measureables are Kongbo, KMac, Tuttle, and Phillips.

And not surprisingly, they are our only 5 star recruits on the defensive line.
 
#21
#21
Short answer? Yes. Our defensive line is undersized.

The only lineman we have with NFL measureables are Kongbo, KMac, Tuttle, and Phillips.

And not surprisingly, they are our only 5 star recruits on the defensive line.

Not that it's important but Tuttle and Phillips were consensus 4 stars. Barnett has "NFL measurables" and is projected to be drafted in the 1st round next April in every mock draft (anywhere from 3-31) you will find on the internet.
 
#22
#22
Short answer? Yes. Our defensive line is undersized.

The only lineman we have with NFL measureables are Kongbo, KMac, Tuttle, and Phillips.

And not surprisingly, they are our only 5 star recruits on the defensive line.

I see what you're saying, but Danny O (301) and Vickers (295) could definitely play in the NFL with their size. As others states, Barnetts size is just fine for an NFL defensive end. He's not a freak like Watt who's like 6'5 290, but Watt isn't the norm. I think the only ones who are undersized are Picou, Butcher, Darrell Taylor, and Vereen at 6'3 250 is a little small.
 
#23
#23
Short answer? Yes. Our defensive line is undersized.

The only lineman we have with NFL measureables are Kongbo, KMac, Tuttle, and Phillips.

And not surprisingly, they are our only 5 star recruits on the defensive line.

You're incorrect on this as it pertains to our DEs. Just flat out wrong. Like Lamarck's hypothesis of inheritance of acquired characteristics level wrong. If I could economically quantify how wrong you are, you'd have a really solid GDP.

As always, you make the mistake of assuming that any player without protypical, create-a-player-in-Madden, measureables is not up to snuff. But that's not the case. This isn't the JV basketball team's fantasy draft. It's college football.

Anyway, Barnett, Mixon, and Latroy Lewis also have NFL size for a 4-3 DE. The average starting NFL 4-3 DE is 6'3.5 268. Most linemen bulk up a bit after a year or two in the league. As it stands, you're missing 4 DEs on our squad who meet the height requirement: Mixon, Lewis (who, ironically is virtually the exact size as Phillips...just 3 pounds lighter), Taylor, and Smith. (Barnett just misses the cut here by half an inch). Take out Taylor and Smith and all of those guys (also Barnett) are within 12 pounds of the average weight of a starting NFL 4-3 DE.

NFL scouts usually look for a 4-3 DE to ideally have the minimum measureables of 6'3 255 entering the draft. The ideal probably looks something like Robert Quinn at 6'4 265. We have 5 DEs that fall squarely in that range. Smith and Taylor will most likely be in that range with another year or two in the weight room as well.
 
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#25
#25
Barnett is actually on the heavier side when it comes to 4-3 ends. He doesn't have elite Height and length is the usual draft criticism, but even then he is only a couple inches shy of prototypical size. (TWSS)

I do think we are slightly undersized on the interior but nothing all that substantial. Butch and Shoop have both said they like DT's to be mobile and make plays, not just eat up space.

So you think Shy and Kahlil are undersized?
 

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