I just don't understand (Barnett vs Garrett)

#1
The Artful Dodger

The Artful Dodger

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#1
Why Myles Garrett is considered as being so much better than Derek Barnett. There was a recent article put out by a "draft guru" (Dane Brugler), that said Garrett is by far the best prospect in the '17 draft and there is a drop-off after him.

Besides sacks, which Garrett only leads DB by 3.5 over two years (22.5-19), Barnett leads in almost every other statistical category. Most notably tackles and tackles for loss.

In their two years:
Barnett-142 tackles and 33 TFL
Garrett- 108 tackles and 32 TFL

I've had this conversation with a couple aggies and they argue that Garrett is double-teamed constantly. My response is "What elite D-end isn't double-teamed?" If anything Barnett saw more double-teams than Garrett, especially after Maggitt went out. Barnett didn't have the luxury of having a Daeshon Hall on the other end. Vareen is good, but doesn't have the talent of Hall. Also, Barnett's production against SEC competition has been better, while Garrett has gotten a large chunk of his production verses weak OOC teams. Garrett most definitely passes the eye test. He is a physical freak and a very gifted pass rusher, but I think that there is a strong argument to be made that Barnett is just as good and the numbers back that up.
 
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#2
#2
The Artful Dodger said:
Why Myles Garrett is considered as being so much better than Derek Barnett. There was a recent article put out by a "draft guru" (Dane Brugler), that said Garrett is by far the best prospect in the '17 draft and there is a drop-off after him.

Besides sacks, which Garrett only leads DB by 3.5 over two years (22.5-19), Barnett leads in almost every other statistical category. Most notably tackles and tackles for loss.

In their two years:
Barnett-142 tackles and 33 TFL
Garrett- 108 tackles and 32 TFL

I've had this conversation with a couple aggies and they argue that Garrett is double-teamed constantly. My response is "What elite D-end isn't double-teamed?" If anything Barnett saw more double-teams than Garrett, especially after Maggitt went out. Barnett didn't have the luxury of having a Daeshon Hall on the other end. Vareen is good, but doesn't have the talent of Hall. Also, Barnett's production against SEC competition has been better, while Garrett has gotten a large chunk of his production verses weak OOC teams. Garrett most definitely passes the eye test. He is a physical freak and a very gifted pass rusher, but I think that there is a strong argument to be made that Barnett is just as good and the numbers back that up.
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Then that's why. It's about traits, not stats.
 
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#3
#3
I will add that I've never seen a DE get held more blatantly than DB and not get the benefit of the flag. I know I'm probably a Homer but the video evidence is pretty clear on this point.
 
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#4
#4
It's mainly because of the physical attributes/athleticism that Garrett has. It's freakish. Much like Clowney or Julius Peppers.

Barnett is a great athlete in his own right, but just not on the level of Garrett. Just doesn't have those jaw-drop plays like Garrett's int or Clowney's hit in the bowl game.

From a production standpoint, Barnett is second to none. He even graded out higher than anyone other than Bosa last year. I suspect he will have an outstanding Jr season and wonderful pro career.
 
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#7
#7
Barnett will possibly have the chance to showcase his skills in the SECCG and the playoffs this year. He will get his due, whatever that may be.
 
#8
#8
WildTurkey said:
It's mainly because of the physical attributes/athleticism that Garrett has. It's freakish. Much like Clowney or Julius Peppers.

Barnett is a great athlete in his own right, but just not on the level of Garrett. Just doesn't have those jaw-drop plays like Garrett's int or Clowney's hit in the bowl game.

From a production standpoint, Barnett is second to none. He even graded out higher than anyone other than Bosa last year. I suspect he will have an outstanding Jr season and wonderful pro career.
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Clayton Thorson would like to have a word with you.
 
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#9
#9
The pros don't really care about stats, they care about physical measurables. Garrett's stats would be a lot better if he was playing at Bama or UF. Barnett takes plays off, there's no excuse for him not having any sacks against the 6 FCS & G5 opponents he's played. He had problems dealing with the double team. He was a step too slow last year when it came to some big plays, he dove at the feet and missed Mayfield more than once, he hit but didn't sack Grier on their last drive. His main move is a bull rush around the end which causes a lot of contact which makes officials less likely to see or call the holds.
 
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#10
#10
volboy81 said:
Same way Woodson won the HeisTman over Peyton

H Y P E
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ABC showcased the OU game and CBS showcased 3 of our games. What big/game changing plays did he have in those games? If he had a 4 sack 1 fumble game against any of those teams than he would be getting a lot more praise in the national media. Also Woodson had a better year in 97 than Peyton did
 
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#12
#12
Barnett is rated very highly by many people and is considered a top 10 NFL prospect(there are also websites like ProFootballFocus that grade Barnett above Garrett). The biggest issue with Barnett is he doesn't translate well to a 3-4 from what I can see. Garrett possesses the physical abilities to dominate in both a 4-3 and 3-4, Jevon Kearse-esque.

Barnett, if UT's roster is to be believed, is already playing at 260-ish pounds(and his frame doesn't look like it can hold much more weight). He can't afford to go up to 280-290 and play a 3 or 5 tech in the NFL because that's going to kill his athleticism. His weight is fine for a 3-4 OLB, but he doesn't quite have the speed necessary for him to be super successful there.

He does have the ability to play as a 4-3 DE though, and be one of the best in the nation at that.
 
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#13
#13
08Vol said:
The pros don't really care about stats, they care about physical measurables. Garrett's stats would be a lot better if he was playing at Bama or UF. Barnett takes plays off, there's no excuse for him not having any sacks against the 6 FCS & G5 opponents he's played. He had problems dealing with the double team. He was a step too slow last year when it came to some big plays, he dove at the feet and missed Mayfield more than once, he hit but didn't sack Grier on their last drive. His main move is a bull rush around the end which causes a lot of contact which makes officials less likely to see or call the holds.
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Agree with a lot of what you said. I read where Barnett is really trying to pass White for the sack record this year, so hopefully that means he will have a full year of consistent production and not take 4-5 games to get going. If he can equal his end of year production in the first half of the season, then he should have some truly gaudy numbers. Also, my hope is that Kongbo can take some of the pressure off of DB, if JK stays a DE.
 
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#14
#14
Titans4Vols said:
Barnett is rated very highly by many people and is considered a top 10 NFL prospect(there are also websites like ProFootballFocus that grade Barnett above Garrett). The biggest issue with Barnett is he doesn't translate well to a 3-4 from what I can see. Garrett possesses the physical abilities to dominate in both a 4-3 and 3-4, Jevon Kearse-esque.

Barnett, if UT's roster is to be believed, is already playing at 260-ish pounds(and his frame doesn't look like it can hold much more weight). He can't afford to go up to 280-290 and play a 3 or 5 tech in the NFL because that's going to kill his athleticism. His weight is fine for a 3-4 OLB, but he doesn't quite have the speed necessary for him to be super successful there.


He does have the ability to play as a 4-3 DE though, and be one of the best in the nation at that.
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Good point. I realize I'm kinda being nit-picky considering both players will be off the board by mid-first round.
 
#16
#16
The Artful Dodger said:
Agree with a lot of what you said. I read where Barnett is really trying to pass White for the sack record this year, so hopefully that means he will have a full year of consistent production and not take 4-5 games to get going. If he can equal his end of year production in the first half of the season, then he should have some truly gaudy numbers. Also, my hope is that Kongbo can take some of the pressure off of DB, if JK stays a DE.
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I know you guys won't care for the comparison but Barnett's play, in between the whistles, reminds me a lot of David Pollack. While he doesn't appear to be extremely athletic, he has a wicked first step and is relentless without being overly aggressive.

I can see why many of the scouts would be enamored with Garrett because he has the basic tool kit everyone is looking for and has a lot of flash. Barnett is the kind of kid that looks like he brings his lunch pail to work and plays hard every down and affects more plays but doesn't make you say wow. Garrett is a guy that might make 2 great plays in a game but they make the ESPN highlight reel.
 
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#17
#17
Barnett was held continually last year. Surely for goodness sakes our staff mentioned this to the SEC office. It was absurd how many times he was held many times right in front of the officials eyes and yet he never got the call. Barnett is simply a more productive player than Garrett, IMHO.GBO!!!!!
 
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#18
#18
We also need to realize Barnett has never went thru a spring practice, the time you build your strength and moves for the year. We will see what 2016 brings but he has too much talent behind him to take plays off, but after saying that he rarely sits out a series.
 
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#20
#20
Barnett has a phenomenal motor and effort. That tends to be overlooked in terms of scouting reports because most people look for quickness and athleticism in an end. That's not to say that Barnett isn't quick or athletic, I just think that he's more known for his motor than anything else.
 
#21
#21
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#22
#22
titansvolsfaninga said:
Clayton Thorson would like to have a word with you.
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No question the Thorson sack was vicious, but it's not the impact moment, game-altering, oh-my gosh-did-he-just die on-live-tv hit that Clowney put on that poor tailback. That was other-worldly.

That being said, Barnett could very well end up with a better college and pro career when he's finished.
 
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#23
#23
I love the gif of DB flipping that ky player last year. That makes him my favorite!
 
#25
#25
08Vol said:
The pros don't really care about stats, they care about physical measurables. Garrett's stats would be a lot better if he was playing at Bama or UF. Barnett takes plays off, there's no excuse for him not having any sacks against the 6 FCS & G5 opponents he's played. He had problems dealing with the double team. He was a step too slow last year when it came to some big plays, he dove at the feet and missed Mayfield more than once, he hit but didn't sack Grier on their last drive. His main move is a bull rush around the end which causes a lot of contact which makes officials less likely to see or call the holds.
Click to expand...

Utter silliness. if you honestly think the NFL doesnt really care about stats then you're way behind the 8 ball.
 
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