Thoughts on Butch...

#1
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WildTurkey

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#1
With news of a pending raise/extension mentioned in another thread, I wanted to offer a few thoughts on our current coach and his progress.

1) The 90s are never coming back. At least not in the Vol football sense. Our historic run from 1995 thru 1999 will not be matched by anyone again. There is simply too much parity now. People will point to Saban, but he is the outlier not the norm. Short of Butch (or anyone) locking in top (#1 or #2) recruiting classes every year - without skipping a year - it just won't happen.

2) I do not buy the McElwain comparison yet. Admittedly, he has had a remarkable first year, but I'm not really sure just how much better his offense is than Muschamp's. Reminds me of Muschamp's 11 win season, and we all saw how the next few years panned out. It wouldn't shock me to see similar seasons with Mac.

3) That leads me to my third thought...it is absolutely fair to criticize Butch and staff for the OU and Fla losses. I think they were caught a bit off guard by how much they dominated OU, and subsequently panicked. The Florida game (really the last 2 Fla games) was the low point of his tenure. We had no business losing either one, but especially this season. Unfortunately we have a long history of losing to Florida when we shouldn't. Just one of the universe's mysteries.

4) That said, anyone with eyeballs can see we are a much better team than the one Butch inherited. We have NFL talent at multiple positions. We are among the best special teams and least penalized teams in the country - both hallmarks of well-coached teams. Those are also signs of teams that have "bought in" to the staff's vision.

If Butch can continue his recruiting level, and get someone to help Dobbs progress as a passer, we're looking at a special 2016. Beyond that, I think expectations must be tempered to allow for the occasional 8 win slip due to parity. I think a 45-5 run like Fulmer had is a noble (but futile) aspiration, but hopefully we can include a couple of conference titles and maybe a playoff berth or two in the next 15 years.
 
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#2
#2
As long as he wins 8 games a year, I'm good with the guy. Obviously you want years here and there where you win 10-12 games, but as long as he never goes back below 8, I'm good for now.
 
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#6
#6
VinylVols said:
As long as he wins 8 games a year, I'm good with the guy. Obviously you want years here and there where you win 10-12 games, but as long as he never goes back below 8, I'm good for now.
Click to expand...

This and playing in the SECCG every 2-3 years. Butch has made Tennessee football relevant again. Now it's on him to make the Vols a perennial SEC and Natty contender.
 
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#7
#7
WildTurkey said:
With news of a pending raise/extension mentioned in another thread, I wanted to offer a few thoughts on our current coach and his progress.

1) The 90s are never coming back. At least not in the Vol football sense. Our historic run from 1995 thru 1999 will not be matched by anyone again. There is simply too much parody now. People will point to Saban, but he is the outlier not the norm. Short of Butch (or anyone) locking in top (#1 or #2) recruiting classes every year - without skipping a year - it just won't happen.

2) I do not buy the McElwain comparison yet. Admittedly, he has had a remarkable first year, but I'm not really sure just how much better his offense is than Muschamp's. Reminds me of Muschamp's 11 win season, and we all saw how the next few years panned out. It wouldn't shock me to see similar seasons with Mac.

3) That leads me to my third thought...it is absolutely fair to criticize Butch and staff for the OU and Fla losses. I think they were caught a bit off guard by how much they dominated OU, and subsequently panicked. The Florida game (really the last 2 Fla games) was the low point of his tenure. We had no business losing either one, but especially this season. Unfortunately we have a long history of losing to Florida when we shouldn't. Just one of the universe's mysteries.

4) That said, anyone with eyeballs can see we are a much better team than the one Butch inherited. We have NFL talent at multiple positions. We are among the best special teams and least penalized teams in the country - both hallmarks of well-coached teams. Those are also signs of teams that have "bought in" to the staff's vision.

If Butch can continue his recruiting level, and get someone to help Dobbs progress as a passer, we're looking at a special 2016. Beyond that, I think expectations must be tempered to allow for the occasional 8 win slip due to parody. I think a 45-5 run like Fulmer had is a noble (but futile) aspiration, but hopefully we can include a couple of conference titles and maybe a playoff berth or two in the next 15 years.
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We do make a lot fun at folks we play no doubt but I agree, lots of parity these days.
 
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#12
#12
tvolsfan said:
If that's the accepted standard, I'm out.
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Guess what, dude? Tennessee has tons more 8 and 9 win seasons throughout their history than they do 10 win seasons. So, to say that it is ridiculous to accept mediocrity and 8 wins would be saying that Butch needs to outdo all of UT history by winning 10 games every year.
 
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#13
#13
The performance of our special teams is just beyond phenomenal! And our return game hasn't been this dangerous since the days of Willie Gault and Anthony Hancock...--maybe since Pickens--

I truly want to be confident in CBJ and crew....but honestly--winning out against USCe, Kentucky, Mizzou, and Vandy (not counting N. Texas)....really ISN'T the stuff that fills me with optimism....

An Honest evaluation from this season would have to be that we were only 2 plays from being 10-2....but then you would also have to confess that we were only 2 plays from being 6-6, too.

I'm confident that:

1. Hurd will be 1st team all SEC next year....and maybe 1st team AA,

2. Dobbs still has a ways to go to be an all-SEC QB who can make the throws necessary to win close games late in the 4th QTR,

3. Our front 7 on D--with everyone healthy--next year should be one of the best in the country, especially if JRM stays...

4. Our secondary will still be suspect next year....

We should be able to win the SEC East, but we do have a grueling 4 game schedule.....

Unless we get bitten with the injury bug like we did this year...11-1 is certainly not unreasonable...10-2 at worst...

Hopefully--CBJ and crew will grow more this offseason and be ready to finish those close games....GO VOLS! :salute:
 
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#15
#15
WildTurkey said:
With news of a pending raise/extension mentioned in another thread, I wanted to offer a few thoughts on our current coach and his progress.

1) The 90s are never coming back. At least not in the Vol football sense. Our historic run from 1995 thru 1999 will not be matched by anyone again. There is simply too much parody now. People will point to Saban, but he is the outlier not the norm. Short of Butch (or anyone) locking in top (#1 or #2) recruiting classes every year - without skipping a year - it just won't happen.
Click to expand...
Ironic choice of word.

You are absolutely right... if most of Volnation agrees with your low bar. If you do not expect a championship caliber program then the odds of getting one are very, very low. If on the other hand the standard is to compete for and win championships... something better than the 90's is out there. UF has done it. LSU has done it. OU has done it. Oregon has done it. tOSU looks to be establishing it. Even programs like Stanford, TCU, and Baylor have had themselves in the national conversation for several years running. FSU has. Clemson is there.

So yes, it can happen and, no, you don't have to have classes that the recruiting sites like.

You have to find good talent. You have to develop it. Then you need a coach who can win on game day. IMO, Jones has proven to be the first two... but not yet the last.

2) I do not buy the McElwain comparison yet. Admittedly, he has had a remarkable first year, but I'm not really sure just how much better his offense is than Muschamp's. Reminds me of Muschamp's 11 win season, and we all saw how the next few years panned out. It wouldn't shock me to see similar seasons with Mac.
Click to expand...
You don't have to buy anything. In a year with the door standing wide open for UT, he stole our Christmas candy. McElwain is known for O, not D. He's been around and has had success in numerous jobs.

3) That leads me to my third thought...it is absolutely fair to criticize Butch and staff for the OU and Fla losses. I think they were caught a bit off guard by how much they dominated OU, and subsequently panicked. The Florida game (really the last 2 Fla games) was the low point of his tenure. We had no business losing either one, but especially this season. Unfortunately we have a long history of losing to Florida when we shouldn't. Just one of the universe's mysteries.
Click to expand...
Was there a thought here? I missed it.

4) That said, anyone with eyeballs can see we are a much better team than the one Butch inherited. We have NFL talent at multiple positions. We are among the best special teams and least penalized teams in the country - both hallmarks of well-coached teams. Those are also signs of teams that have "bought in" to the staff's vision.
Click to expand...
That gets you to being in position to beat all of the best teams on your schedule. It takes coaching to push it over the top. So far, Jones' game day coaching hasn't been championship caliber... being kind.

If Butch can continue his recruiting level, and get someone to help Dobbs progress as a passer, we're looking at a special 2016. Beyond that, I think expectations must be tempered to allow for the occasional 8 win slip due to parody. I think a 45-5 run like Fulmer had is a noble (but futile) aspiration, but hopefully we can include a couple of conference titles and maybe a playoff berth or two in the next 15 years.
Click to expand...
Two things, the PARITY in the SEC makes it difficult to expect a championship every year. (Once you look up parody I think you'll find your mistake funny) It does not make it "futile" to expect UT to be in the SEC championship conversation every year.

I don't think the record has to be that good so long as long streaks of futility against some program do not stand in the way of competing for championships... like Fulmer's futility against UF for instance. Jones isn't off to a great start in that regard. A better game day coach beats UF in at least two of Jones first 3 years and probably both.

This is a big boy coaching league and Jones just hasn't shown himself to be a "man" yet on game day.
 
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#17
#17
VinylVols said:
As long as he wins 8 games a year, I'm good with the guy. Obviously you want years here and there where you win 10-12 games, but as long as he never goes back below 8, I'm good for now.
Click to expand...

Dang that is a low standard. My standard for satisfaction is to be at 10 wins or above every year. Until we get there, we will not be respected nationally. How can you say its OK to lose 4 games every year? That could mean never even winning the SEC east.
 
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#18
#18
titansvolsfaninga said:
Be sure to train hard this off season. Hit the weights extra hard. Get faster and stronger. I expect to see you be a Heisman candidate. Please remind me, what position do you play?
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I guarantee you the coaches and players all have their minds set on getting to the SECCG next year with the way the season played out. So why can't the fans have the same mindset? If we hold on to beat UF we would be there this year. If we avoid big time injuries next year, why should we not expect to get to Atlanta? If CBJ is going to be the guy long term, then playing for the SEC has to be an expectation at some point right?
 
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#19
#19
Butch met my expectation of 8-9 wins. I believe the majority of seasons should finish with 9 wins. Every now and then we have great seasons and bad seasons in between those 9 win seasons.
 
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#20
#20
VFL1953 said:
I'm quite sure CBJ will take that into consideration. I know he spends many a waking night pondering ultimatums from VN posters.
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I am simply just a fan that wants TN to win a conference title for the first time in 17 years. If that rubs other VOL fans the wrong way then oh well. We have the roster to get there in 2016 IMO.
 
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#21
#21
vtvol98 said:
It's similar mindsets like yours which put Miles on the hot seat and got Richt canned.
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Yes, regular mediocrity (which 8-4 records certainly qualify as mediocre) is UNACCEPTABLE. That does not mean an 8 win season can't happen every once in a while, it just can't be the norm.

As a fan base, we should expect this program (based on its entire history) to be a perennial Top 15 team or better program nationally and a Top 4 program in the SEC. We are historically better and have more of a tradition of excellence than everyone in the conference except Alabama. We should expect this program to win the SEC Championship, at least once or twice a decade on average, and be in the SEC Championship game at least 3 or 4 times a decade. We should NEVER settle for less without the University administration hearing and feeling our displeasure in the pocketbook. If those in charge, Coaching Staff and Athletic Director, aren't meeting the standards of this program, they need to be replaced pure and simple.
 
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#22
#22
sjt18 said:
It does not make it "futile" to expect UT to be in the SEC championship conversation every year.
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you typed a lot. but this is all that matters. be relevant in more than pre-season magazines and the Florida Pregame show.

get out of September with the door still wide open, not needing anyone to crack it for you to get back in.

do that more than 5 times in the last 25 years and we'd be amazed at probably how much differently this program would be viewed year in and year out.
 
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