What is wrong with accountability?

#1
Bleed-Orange

Bleed-Orange

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#1
I understand that any major undertaking is a process. You focus on the small tasks and issues that you can control in order to implement a larger plan and goal. To this end I get how some want to look at the incremental statistical improvement. At some point you focus on the big picture to see if the process is working. If you aren’t accomplishing the goal then your process is flawed. When do we get to that point? I personally think year 3 is that point.

Bigger question, what is wrong with accountability for not achieving as you should? Some people on this board sound like the employee that is upset with their review when they knew good and well ahead of time that they had not hit the goals. Is it the fact that we were further ahead from a talent perspective than we expected this year and some fans feel we are playing with “house money”? Are these the employees that hits goal in the first quarter then feel like they can do nothing the rest of the year?

Further, why would anyone think that fan frustration hurts the program? In my daily life I focus on the positive as much as possible. To that end I understand being turned off by the negativity. Have any of you ever spent time in the northeast? I know pro sports are a different animal, but I’ve never heard anyone claim that the fan passion for winning/losing hurts the team.
 
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#3
#3
Because guys making almost $4 mill a year shouldn't be accountable for anything. They're victims of circumstance.
 
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#5
#5
Bleed-Orange said:
I understand that any major undertaking is a process. You focus on the small tasks and issues that you can control in order to implement a larger plan and goal. To this end I get how some want to look at the incremental statistical improvement. At some point you focus on the big picture to see if the process is working. If you aren’t accomplishing the goal then your process is flawed. When do we get to that point? I personally think year 3 is that point.

Bigger question, what is wrong with accountability for not achieving as you should? Some people on this board sound like the employee that is upset with their review when they knew good and well ahead of time that they had not hit the goals. Is it the fact that we were further ahead from a talent perspective than we expected this year and some fans feel we are playing with “house money”? Are these the employees that hits goal in the first quarter then feels like they can do nothing the rest of the year?

Further, why would anyone think that fan frustration hurts the program? In my daily life I focus on the positive as much as possible. To that end I understand being turned off by the negativity. Have any of you ever spent time in the northeast? I know pro sports are a different animal, but I’ve never heard anyone claim that the fan passion for winning/losing hurts the team.
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Accountability is healthy and helps in measuring results. Is it too early to call for Butch to be fired, yes of course. Most reasonable analysis of Butch would suggest him being fired now is too early. That being said, the stark reality is: Butch is feeling the pressure and his seat is getting hot as the losses stack "brick by brick".

At the end of the day one is only as good as their record and Butch' record at UT is not very good.

For me, there is no personal attack against Butch. He's a great guy, great recruiter, great representative of UT football and horrible game day coach. Simple as that.

It is terribly unfortunate for him as he had tremendous opportunity last year against FL, this year against OU, FL and ARK to coach to win the game and get after UT' opponent when they were down but he failed to seize the opportunity and take momentum in those games when it mattered most, especially in the two FL losses and the OU loss.
 
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#6
#6
absolutely nothing wrong with accountability....things are not always as cut and dry as some want to portend and when extremist argue it can get volatile and ugly instead of having any real, meaningful debate / discussion.
 
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#8
#8
Bleed-Orange said:
I understand that any major undertaking is a process. You focus on the small tasks and issues that you can control in order to implement a larger plan and goal. To this end I get how some want to look at the incremental statistical improvement. At some point you focus on the big picture to see if the process is working. If you aren’t accomplishing the goal then your process is flawed. When do we get to that point? I personally think year 3 is that point.

Bigger question, what is wrong with accountability for not achieving as you should? Some people on this board sound like the employee that is upset with their review when they knew good and well ahead of time that they had not hit the goals. Is it the fact that we were further ahead from a talent perspective than we expected this year and some fans feel we are playing with “house money”? Are these the employees that hits goal in the first quarter then feels like they can do nothing the rest of the year?

Further, why would anyone think that fan frustration hurts the program? In my daily life I focus on the positive as much as possible. To that end I understand being turned off by the negativity. Have any of you ever spent time in the northeast? I know pro sports are a different animal, but I’ve never heard anyone claim that the fan passion for winning/losing hurts the team.
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tl/dr
 
#9
#9
It's not a question of accountability; it's a question of anonymous posters denigrating everything CBJ or anyone with the program says. It's far beyond accountability--it's ridicule by many who face no accountability for their comments.

Certainly CBJ and his staff should expect questions but ridicule run amuck is ridiculous
 
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#10
#10
Volinnooga said:
It's not a question of accountability; it's a question of anonymous posters denigrating everything CBJ or anyone with the program says. It's far beyond accountability--it's ridicule by many who face no accountability for their comments.

Certainly CBJ and his staff should expect questions but ridicule run amuck is ridiculous
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Ridiculous on a message board? Can't say I like everything that is said but they aren't getting ridicule unless they sit hear and read. Obviously the "Butch punch" is different but the rest?
 
#12
#12
Volinnooga said:
It's not a question of accountability; it's a question of anonymous posters denigrating everything CBJ or anyone with the program says. It's far beyond accountability--it's ridicule by many who face no accountability for their comments.

Certainly CBJ and his staff should expect questions but ridicule run amuck is ridiculous
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imgLogo.png
 
#13
#13
In order to be accountable, you have to have a defined set of standards. It's pretty simple in the work place since the management team defines the goals and the process of measuring an employee against those goals.

VN isn't divided over CBJ's accountability (or lack of), they're divided over the standards.


You stated "I personally think year 3 is that point." For those who do not, are they dismissing accountability or simply applying a different standard?
 
#14
#14
I think my issue lies less with holding people accountable, as they should be after 3 atrocious losses, and more with people constantly berating coaches/players on social media. Which, believe it or not, is a pretty big forum for 17-18 year old kids and has a larger impact than it would've had 5 years ago.
 
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#15
#15
SaintLouisVol said:
In order to be accountable, you have to have a defined set of standards. It's pretty simple in the work place since the management team defines the goals and the process of measuring an employee against those goals.

VN isn't divided over CBJ's accountability (or lack of), they're divided over the standards.


You stated "I personally think year 3 is that point." For those who do not, are they dismissing accountability or simply applying a different standard?
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Personally, I think they are missing some of the measurements of the process. I like to let people define the process themselves as long as they can show me how it will hit the goal. However, along the way we will redirect if necessary. I don't think it is unreasonable to read the signs and realize that you are missing something midstream that needs to be corrected. This is why I don't want to give up on Butch. That being said, when you repeat the same mistakes I get upset.
 
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#16
#16
Here is my take on this whole thing. I agree there have been some questionable decisions with Coach Jones. The Debord hire wasn't great, that said we are averaging probably close to 10 points a game more currently. The stats have improved tremendously, the wins haven't. It takes time at this level to win big, especially if the majority of the team are freshmen and sophomores. Jones Jr. class is not really his as he took over in December.
I think maybe some criticism is fair, but the fire Butch talk is crazy. Some of you point to close games we have lost and my response to that is Vandy in 13 we had 0 talent, Florida last season was lost on depth and freshmen. Keep in mind Florida has one of the best defenses we play all season the couple years. This season depth is really raising its head, we come out swinging in every game this season. Our OL is not even average, yet we are one of the top rushing teams, actually we have to be. I have no clue what is wrong with the passing game, I have seen Dobbs put the ball in some good spots and it's flat out dropped, I have also seen the opposite.
I really believe this team lost focus last week for maybe the first time in Jones era, it would be hard for anyone to listen to the constant complaining and trash some of the fan base has spewed since the UF loss. We have some key players out offensively and defensively, so I think maybe taking a step back and reserve judgement until Jones has Sophomore and Jr team is the fairest thing for us as fans to do. If we can do that without hampering recruiting maybe next year it starts to take off.
I don't want to hear about UF and how bad they were, they were always talented and McElwain is not a first year HC as some say. He has big time credentials, has coached big games and proven. Offense is his game and that was UFs biggest problem.

I do think we need some different coaches, Jones isn't one of them unless he refused to be honest when evaluations are done. I would name positions but I don't think that's respectable to do at this point. It's pretty obvious which positions struggle to get anything done.
 
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#18
#18
Bleed-Orange said:
I understand that any major undertaking is a process. You focus on the small tasks and issues that you can control in order to implement a larger plan and goal. To this end I get how some want to look at the incremental statistical improvement. At some point you focus on the big picture to see if the process is working. If you aren’t accomplishing the goal then your process is flawed. When do we get to that point? I personally think year 3 is that point.

Bigger question, what is wrong with accountability for not achieving as you should? Some people on this board sound like the employee that is upset with their review when they knew good and well ahead of time that they had not hit the goals. Is it the fact that we were further ahead from a talent perspective than we expected this year and some fans feel we are playing with “house money”? Are these the employees that hits goal in the first quarter then feel like they can do nothing the rest of the year?

Further, why would anyone think that fan frustration hurts the program? In my daily life I focus on the positive as much as possible. To that end I understand being turned off by the negativity. Have any of you ever spent time in the northeast? I know pro sports are a different animal, but I’ve never heard anyone claim that the fan passion for winning/losing hurts the team.
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because half the fan base is so used to being a 500 team that is what they enjoy now.
 
#19
#19
If I was Butch and they beat UGA I'd just stand at the post game presser podium and hold up two big middle fingers and tell everyone to F Off
 
#20
#20
DjVFL0773 said:
If I was Butch and they beat UGA I'd just stand at the post game presser podium and hold up two big middle fingers and tell everyone to F Off
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we don't have to worry about that. we will start the second half with the lead, go conservative and lose. it is the butch jones way.
 
#21
#21
On a well run team in any sport, everyone is accountable. Obviously, the head coach should be held accountable. But I've always felt in football the best teams I either played on or coached, players were accountable to each other. The leadership on the team is very important. Which I guess seems obvious, but from season to season it evolves.
 
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#22
#22
BigALWiLson said:
Some of you point to close games we have lost and my response to that is Vandy in 13 we had 0 talent,
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We started 14 four star recruits including a future first round draft pick. Vanderbilt started 1 four star recruit.

BigALWiLson said:
Florida last season was lost on depth and freshmen.
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We held a 2 score lead until Florida inserted a true freshman QB into the game.


...but yeah, let's just ignore actual facts
 
#23
#23
It will be the same song and dance next year. We will probably loose at least 4 defensive starters and the excuse will be "We are starting 4 new players in the SEC and we all know how competitive this conference is but I am encouraged by our defense resiliency". Until CBJ hires guys who understand how to prepare and call football games he will continue to loose at this level.

The talent on the field doesn't match the talent on the sideline
 
#24
#24
As a fan, I hold Jones accountable for what he should be held accountable for:
- in-game decisions (like kicking a field goal from the 1 yard line vs OK or not going for 2 when up by 12 at FL or calling a timeout on 4th down when FL was lined up to kick a field goal)
- game clock management (see debacle at FL)
- personnel management (not trying out all your options, like staying with Worley until he wasn't an option last year, or not trying Dormady vs Ark when Dobbs couldn't hit the broadside of a barn)

Jones isn't out on the field passing the ball or tackling running backs, so I can't hold him directly accountable for players' actions. But according to what he can control he should be accountable for the points above. I think that's where most fans' frustration lies. Losing never helps, only magnifies the shortcomings - and in two of the three games we lost this year, his decisions directly impacted the outcome. For THAT, he is accountable...
 
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